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Real Estate as we know is all about sales/marketing/pitching and the neighborhood game agents play is definitely a 'thing' for better or worst. Residents also make the play depending on how long their toes have been in the neighborhood.
Prime example is Brewerytown. It surely is up and coming and development is booming, and overall the dynamic is shifting to good. W. Girard Ave. still has some vacancies to fill (where is that Green Eggs?? That is the domino) until full traction catches on.
I notice that southern Brewerytown residents refer to it as Art Museum as right to its south where the established Fairmount neighborhood is located markets itself as Art Musuem to be cool and trendy, and southern Brewerytown residents use it as leverage to co-join the neighborhoods and that cool vibe.
Then development is slowly trickling north of Cecil B. which is considered Strawberry Mansion and homes there are now marketed as Brewerytown.
Whereas now Brewerytown is the connector between up and coming cool and what for years had a more negative connotation.
Interesting game and topic.
Neighborhoods gaining traction towards positive connotation are definitely Brewerytown all around as you notated with the Sharswood reference.
W. Girard Ave. is in need of an anchor. To me it is the Green Eggs, but they still have questionably not opened, despite having completed the space. (I am guessing it is a permit/city problem).
Crime and Punishment and Ryebrew are great, Green Eggs has real pulling power, that will kick fire that corridor.
There's been more than one effort, as you probably know, to bring Brewerytown "back" going back to the 80s. This time it may work.
In East Mt. Airy we seem to have the opposite problem where crime gets ascribed to us that really happened in East Germantown, West Oak Lane, and Cedarbrook. Most recent example was that woman found in the trash can.
Mmh, I've noticed the opposite--crime in Mt. Airy and West Oak Lane/Ogontz--is often labeled as Germantown. There is ongoing discussion of this on the neighborhood FB groups. Although I have noticed that "East Mount Airy" is often stressed even when the crime is on the West side of Gtown Ave, and many take issue with Wadsworth (or Cedarbrook) always being labeled as East Mount Airy since those neighborhoods have higher crime rates than Mt. Airy proper.
Mmh, I've noticed the opposite--crime in Mt. Airy and West Oak Lane/Ogontz--is often labeled as Germantown. There is ongoing discussion of this on the neighborhood FB groups. Although I have noticed that "East Mount Airy" is often stressed even when the crime is on the West side of Gtown Ave, and many take issue with Wadsworth (or Cedarbrook) always being labeled as East Mount Airy since those neighborhoods have higher crime rates than Mt. Airy proper.
As I said above, the people who live in that neighborhood object to it being called Cedarbrook (or Wadsworth).
As I said above, the people who live in that neighborhood object to it being called Cedarbrook (or Wadsworth).
Yes, not all though--I've known people from there that will (proudly) say Wadsworth. Growing up in Philly, your neighborhood is very strongly associated with your playground/pool and your library (church and school too although these are not as universal).
In Mt. Airy it's Mt Airy Playground, Pleasant Pool and Lovett Library. We went to Coleman Regional Library on Chelten Ave and Wadsworth Library to find books/dvds not at Lovett, but they always felt like different neighborhoods. I think it's an interesting case study, even if the neighborhood cohesion is not there, but to me it seems the area was never considered Mt. Airy by "Historic" Mt. Airy, even when the neighborhood was originally marketed as such when it was mostly Jewish. TBH, there is much more of a blur/confusion between Mt. Airy and Germantown, which makes sense.
Yes, not all though--I've known people from there that will (proudly) say Wadsworth. Growing up in Philly, your neighborhood is very strongly associated with your playground/pool and your library (church and school too although these are not as universal).
In Mt. Airy it's Mt Airy Playground, Pleasant Pool and Lovett Library. We went to Coleman Regional Library on Chelten Ave and Wadsworth Library to find books/dvds not at Lovett, but they always felt like different neighborhoods. I think it's an interesting case study, even if the neighborhood cohesion is not there, but to me it seems the area was never considered Mt. Airy by "Historic" Mt. Airy, even when the neighborhood was originally marketed as such when it was mostly Jewish. TBH, there is much more of a blur/confusion between Mt. Airy and Germantown, which makes sense.
I would say you're right about Mt. Airy vs. Germantown. Shall we discuss the 6300 block of Germantown Avenue, or where the police district boundaries lie?
Yes, not all though--I've known people from there that will (proudly) say Wadsworth. Growing up in Philly, your neighborhood is very strongly associated with your playground/pool and your library (church and school too although these are not as universal).
In Mt. Airy it's Mt Airy Playground, Pleasant Pool and Lovett Library. We went to Coleman Regional Library on Chelten Ave and Wadsworth Library to find books/dvds not at Lovett, but they always felt like different neighborhoods. I think it's an interesting case study, even if the neighborhood cohesion is not there, but to me it seems the area was never considered Mt. Airy by "Historic" Mt. Airy, even when the neighborhood was originally marketed as such when it was mostly Jewish. TBH, there is much more of a blur/confusion between Mt. Airy and Germantown, which makes sense.
“Historic” Mt. Airy is a much smaller area than the combined area of the two neighborhood associations. If early twentieth century maps are accurate, most of what is currently defined as Mt. Airy was known as Mt. Pleasant one hundred years ago. There was no East or West Mt. Airy until the neighborhood associations were established either.
As far as I know and as someone who lived there at the time there wasn’t any concern about the boundaries of Mt. Airy until black people moved into the neighborhood and EMAN was established. For example, Temple always referred to the site of its former athletic facilities and school buildings as being in Mt. Airy without any objection. Here is the official poster from the Dead show at Temple stadium https://goo.gl/images/A3ZeW9
Note the location.
To be honest this is entirely about the presence of black people or perhaps more specifically about the absence of white people. EMAN was created and the explicit definition of neighborhood boundaries was made in what proved to be a too late attempt to prevent the area east of Germantown Avenue becoming a black neighborhood. EMANs leaders went so far as to persuade the school district to redraw Houston’s catchment so that it no longer extended east of Stenton Avenue in an attempt to increase the white share of enrollment at the school.
By the way, there was a neighborhood association known as Stenton Neighbors that spanned both sides of Stenton Avenue from Washington Lane to Phil Ellena and from Ardleigh Street to Thouron Avenue in the 1950s. It was formed largely to protest the construction of a proposed high rise apartment building at Washington Lane and Stenton. I’ve wondered if that is why the label Stenton appears on the 19150 area on google maps.
Mmh, I've noticed the opposite--crime in Mt. Airy and West Oak Lane/Ogontz--is often labeled as Germantown. There is ongoing discussion of this on the neighborhood FB groups. Although I have noticed that "East Mount Airy" is often stressed even when the crime is on the West side of Gtown Ave, and many take issue with Wadsworth (or Cedarbrook) always being labeled as East Mount Airy since those neighborhoods have higher crime rates than Mt. Airy proper.
You've noticed crime in EMA labeled as Germantown? That is not something I have seen though I don't doubt your perspective. I have definitely noticed some crime in WOL labeled as Germantown or east Germantown. I agree that the "east" is often emphasized when crime occurs on our side of Germantown ave. A good example as that quadruple shooting that occurring that occurred a few years ago at the 7165 Germantown ave space is which is just barely east mt airy.
I would say you're right about Mt. Airy vs. Germantown. Shall we discuss the 6300 block of Germantown Avenue, or where the police district boundaries lie?
I recently attended a Civic Desire Review meeting for a proposed development on that block. Since there were no neighborhood RCO's that technically captured the area EMAN was asked to be the coordinated RCO and (on short notice) secured a meeting space at the Lutheran theological seminary. The Germantown residents were furious that the meeting was held in Mt. Airy and almost completely derailed the meeting. I thought it was interesting because that block is covered by the Mt. Airy BID. Which is good because the recent troubles of the Germantown SSD has been well documented.
“Historic” Mt. Airy is a much smaller area than the combined area of the two neighborhood associations. If early twentieth century maps are accurate, most of what is currently defined as Mt. Airy was known as Mt. Pleasant one hundred years ago. There was no East or West Mt. Airy until the neighborhood associations were established either.
As far as I know and as someone who lived there at the time there wasn’t any concern about the boundaries of Mt. Airy until black people moved into the neighborhood and EMAN was established. For example, Temple always referred to the site of its former athletic facilities and school buildings as being in Mt. Airy without any objection. Here is the official poster from the Dead show at Temple stadium https://goo.gl/images/A3ZeW9
Note the location.
To be honest this is entirely about the presence of black people or perhaps more specifically about the absence of white people. EMAN was created and the explicit definition of neighborhood boundaries was made in what proved to be a too late attempt to prevent the area east of Germantown Avenue becoming a black neighborhood. EMANs leaders went so far as to persuade the school district to redraw Houston’s catchment so that it no longer extended east of Stenton Avenue in an attempt to increase the white share of enrollment at the school.
By the way, there was a neighborhood association known as Stenton Neighbors that spanned both sides of Stenton Avenue from Washington Lane to Phil Ellena and from Ardleigh Street to Thouron Avenue in the 1950s. It was formed largely to protest the construction of a proposed high rise apartment building at Washington Lane and Stenton. I’ve wondered if that is why the label Stenton appears on the 19150 area on google maps.
The original names of the villages that make up present day Mount Airy are Cresheim and Beggarstown. Beggarstown was a village centered along Germantown Avenue, closer to the town of Germantown. Cresheim was much more rural, and centered along the current Cresheim Road. There are some neat old pictures from before this land was developed.
People define the borders as ending at Stenton Avenue because that is the border of Germantown Township. There's precedence for this going back hundreds of years.
Mount Airy was an estate owned by Richard Allen - the property of which was entirely located in what's now referred to as East Mount Airy. Lutheran Theological Seminary is on it now.
Mount Airy was also a name cooked up by real estate agents for the neighborhood. People on this forum take such a hard line on Cedarbrook being a part of Mount Airy because it's what people in the 1950's were told they were buying houses into. But there were plenty of people living in Mount Airy at that time that didn't refer to their neighborhood as Mount Airy, but something else. Germantown, Mount Pleasant, Cresheim, Pelham, Stenton, or whatever. So it's a pretty weak argument, I think, compared to centuries of Stenton Avenue being the end of Germantown Township.
Most people who live in Mount Airy, no matter what you define the borders as, are black. There are sections of East Mount Airy that everybody agrees is East Mount Airy that are 90%+ black. Very few people who live in Mount Airy probably care what color their neighbors are. Most of Cedarbrook is much nicer looking than the run down parts of East Mount Airy that everyone agrees is Mount Airy.
There are lots of neighborhoods in Philadelphia that are sort of social constructions and seem to change by the day. Germantown and Germantown Township have an almost ancient history as far as modern American settlements go, and the nearly ancient history provides us with a set a borders.
Stenton was how the real estate folks sold the housing development near Stenton Station, developed not long after the railroad was extended from Germantown to Chestnut Hill. Mount Airy would not have been in common usage yet.
Look at it this way: We all know that Center City is Vine to South, River to River.
So what about someone who lives at 18th and Callowhill? Does that person live in Center City.
There are three answers to the question, and they are all true for various reasons: Yes, no and maybe.
The original names of the villages that make up present day Mount Airy are Cresheim and Beggarstown. Beggarstown was a village centered along Germantown Avenue, closer to the town of Germantown. Cresheim was much more rural, and centered along the current Cresheim Road. There are some neat old pictures from before this land was developed.
People define the borders as ending at Stenton Avenue because that is the border of Germantown Township. There's precedence for this going back hundreds of years.
Mount Airy was an estate owned by Richard Allen - the property of which was entirely located in what's now referred to as East Mount Airy. Lutheran Theological Seminary is on it now.
Mount Airy was also a name cooked up by real estate agents for the neighborhood. People on this forum take such a hard line on Cedarbrook being a part of Mount Airy because it's what people in the 1950's were told they were buying houses into. But there were plenty of people living in Mount Airy at that time that didn't refer to their neighborhood as Mount Airy, but something else. Germantown, Mount Pleasant, Cresheim, Pelham, Stenton, or whatever. So it's a pretty weak argument, I think, compared to centuries of Stenton Avenue being the end of Germantown Township.
Most people who live in Mount Airy, no matter what you define the borders as, are black. There are sections of East Mount Airy that everybody agrees is East Mount Airy that are 90%+ black. Very few people who live in Mount Airy probably care what color their neighbors are. Most of Cedarbrook is much nicer looking than the run down parts of East Mount Airy that everyone agrees is Mount Airy.
There are lots of neighborhoods in Philadelphia that are sort of social constructions and seem to change by the day. Germantown and Germantown Township have an almost ancient history as far as modern American settlements go, and the nearly ancient history provides us with a set a borders.
Stenton was how the real estate folks sold the housing development near Stenton Station, developed not long after the railroad was extended from Germantown to Chestnut Hill. Mount Airy would not have been in common usage yet.
Look at it this way: We all know that Center City is Vine to South, River to River.
So what about someone who lives at 18th and Callowhill? Does that person live in Center City.
There are three answers to the question, and they are all true for various reasons: Yes, no and maybe.
EMAN considered including the area east of Stenton in its boundaries. Ultimately the group decided not to. The decision was driven by a desire to establish a racially integrated neighborhood and the founders of EMAN decided they had a better shot at doing so if they set the boundary at Stenton. It’s also why they requested that Houston’s catchment be redrawn. It didn’t work. They wound up with a small slight majority white enclave in a large majority black neighborhood.
This had nothing to do with historical boundaries. It had everything to do with panic about white flight and fear of crime. I know this becuase my parents participated in the planning meetings for EMAN. The impetus for creating EMAN was a speech regarding white flight in (1966 or 1967) as white flight was in full swing by Rudy Gelsey who was the pastor at UU Restoration Church on Stenton Avenue. Gelsey’s speech was entitled something along the lines of “East Mt. Airy: Slum or Good Place to Live?” IIRC, EMAN in its official history acknowledges the fact that they considered different boundaries than the ones they ultimately chose and they don’t mention the boundaries of then more than a century extinct townships becuase that wasn’t what they had on their minds. My recollection is that they mention that they chose the association’s boundaries based on the belief that they were the largest the organization could reasonably support.
Temple stadium opened in 1928 before the vast majority of houses in the area were built. And Temple always referred to the stadium is being located in Mt. Airy. Are you implying that Temple didn’t know the name of the neighborhood in which they built a stadium?
It’s both funny and sad that people so stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the source of the disputed neighborhood name. It’s never been about historical boundaries. The issue was and is race.
Last edited by BR Valentine; 03-15-2019 at 10:57 AM..
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