05-22-2019, 09:10 AM
Location: In the heights
36,959 posts, read
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
MB1562
Yes, but rail hasn't seem the same decline as far as I'm aware. I'm guessing that people still consider taking the subway as a good option versus Uber/Lyft, while taking the bus is becoming less and less of an attractive option compared to ride-sharing.
It's also that ridesharing vehicles themselves cause some of the congestion as the double parking for pick up and drop off and the constant cruising waiting for customers ultimately adds to congestion.
05-22-2019, 02:34 PM
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I always thought it was strange that the trolleys stopped at city hall and not go all the way to the river. Probably too late to do any extension like that though, plus it kind of provides redundant service to the el. I heard somewhere that the broad street concourse from city hall to south was originally built to run trolleys. It'd be kind of useful to have them run there and come above ground and disperse into south Philly, similar to how the west Philly subway surface lines work. More heavy rail would be great, but I think we kind of missed the boat on that. I'd be happy with just the RB branch off the BSL and the extension to the Navy Yard. The KOP spur I think is important as well. Also always wished they used the city branch cut to do a spur out to the art museum/fairmount. Also, is there a reason we have 4 tracks for the BSL? It seems kind of a waste, but maybe it got more usage in the past. It seems like it would be more efficient branching out into NE and NW Philly. I think there used to be plans for a Chestnut Hill line as well as the blvd line that branched off the BSL.
I always thought the trolleys were great. When I lived in west Philly, they got me into center city in a matter of minutes. Sure they're not as fast as the el, but better than the bus or car. I live in CC now and still use them to get to west Philly. I don't really have any complaints. I think the plans to turn them into more of a light rail network will help improve them and of course the new cars. I've never used the Girard trolley so I can't really speak to that one, but it's pretty cool looking and when we have people visiting they always like seeing the vintage car. I think they should run them down the old Germantown ave line too; tourists would eat that up and their aren't many toursits on Girard other than at the zoo. They could probably run them down the city branch cut actually and connect to the existing Germantown line trolley tracks in Center City, then you have a decent tourist line hitting a lot of the museums/convention center. Still think a BSL spur would be better though, especially for residents. But since we're dreaming, why not both, it was built for 6 tracks I think.
As for the bus network, it is what it is. Buses definitely serve a purpose but I've never been on one in any city that I could say was efficient.
05-22-2019, 07:00 PM
Location: West Philadelphia
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The trolleys do need to be modernized to accommodate all riders, but it would be an absolute shame to lose them in favor of buses. The subway-surface aspect is hugely important, particularly to West and Southwest Philly. It's interesting when you consider a city like Portland's streetcar expansion. Why couldn't that be just as feasible here?
05-22-2019, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
banjozac
The trolleys do need to be modernized to accommodate all riders, but it would be an absolute shame to lose them in favor of buses. The subway-surface aspect is hugely important, particularly to West and Southwest Philly. It's interesting when you consider a city like Portland's streetcar expansion. Why couldn't that be just as feasible here?
They are supposed to replace the current subway surface fleet so they are ADA compliant.
05-23-2019, 03:58 AM
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
14,004 posts, read
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Reputation: 10337
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skintreesnail
I always thought it was strange that the trolleys stopped at city hall and not go all the way to the river. Probably too late to do any extension like that though, plus it kind of provides redundant service to the el. I heard somewhere that the broad street concourse from city hall to south was originally built to run trolleys. It'd be kind of useful to have them run there and come above ground and disperse into south Philly, similar to how the west Philly subway surface lines work. More heavy rail would be great, but I think we kind of missed the boat on that. I'd be happy with just the RB branch off the BSL and the extension to the Navy Yard. The KOP spur I think is important as well. Also always wished they used the city branch cut to do a spur out to the art museum/fairmount. Also, is there a reason we have 4 tracks for the BSL? It seems kind of a waste, but maybe it got more usage in the past. It seems like it would be more efficient branching out into NE and NW Philly. I think there used to be plans for a Chestnut Hill line as well as the blvd line that branched off the BSL.
I don't know where you heard that the South Broad Street concourse was to have served as a trolley tunnel; that was never part of the 1913 plan that gave us the Broad Street Subway and Frankford Elevated.
The trolley tunnel was originally to have run all the way to the Delaware too; the Market Street subway in Center City would have provided "express" service, with only two stops east of City Hall.
Traffic on the Market Street line after the trolley subway was cut back to City Hall for cost and engineering reasons led city transit planners to recommend a 4-track subway for Broad Street; a second reason for the local/express configuration was because the Broad Street line was supposed to be the trunk of a tree with several branches - one to Germantown, another to the Northeast, a third to West Oak Lane. Those branches would probably have produced the traffic the 1913 A. Merritt Taylor plan predicted. (The Broad Street line was also supposed to run in a loop subway downtown that would have distributed traffic along the city's main axis of commerce. That loop got cut after work on the line was suspended in 1917 for lack of funds. So instead, it cuts across the axis, which may also have reduced traffic below envisioned levels. A spur line down Ridge Avenue to 8th and Market, later extended to 16th and Locust along part of the loop route, did serve as a partial collector-distributor, but it also never saw lots of traffic; the one station it serves exclusively - Chinatown (nee Race-Vine) - is the least-used station in the SEPTA rapid transit network.)
The express tracks ran only as far north as Girard from 1927 until the late 1960s, when they were installed as far north as Erie; the express tracks from there north didn't get installed until the Reading-side railroad embankment got shut down in late 1984 to rebuild its bridges.
05-23-2019, 08:59 AM
2,041 posts, read
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Reputation: 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skintreesnail
More heavy rail would be great, but I think we kind of missed the boat on that.
Philly better catch the next damn boat then because this city won't survive without more heavy rail. Especially in the Southwest and Northeast.
05-23-2019, 09:23 AM
187 posts, read
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Reputation: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MarketStEl
I don't know where you heard that the South Broad Street concourse was to have served as a trolley tunnel; that was never part of the 1913 plan that gave us the Broad Street Subway and Frankford Elevated.
I want to say some concourse history piece on hidden city or plan philly. It surprised me, which is why I remembered it. But then I think Park street station in Boston is kind of like that. I remember multiple tracks for the green line that you could just walk across in a cavernous space to get to whatever line you need. The Red line was in a tunnel below that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MarketStEl
The trolley tunnel was originally to have run all the way to the Delaware too; the Market Street subway in Center City would have provided "express" service, with only two stops east of City Hall.
That makes a lot of sense after considering the stops west of city hall.
05-23-2019, 10:40 AM
10,787 posts, read
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Reputation: 3983
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MB1562
Yes, but rail hasn't seem the same decline as far as I'm aware. I'm guessing that people still consider taking the subway as a good option versus Uber/Lyft, while taking the bus is becoming less and less of an attractive option compared to ride-sharing.
Seniors, for example, can ride free on Septa. And women need to learn about the sexual assault problems with Lyft/Uber which has been kept under the radar. Big reason why I want to avoid both.
Then there's Lyft's class action lawsuit which claims the company misled investors going into their IPO. IPO price: $72. Now it's down to $54. Uber's IPO failed too.
I do think riding is here to stay though.
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
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Housing units in structures - Mobile home (%)
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House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
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Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
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Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
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People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
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People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
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People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
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People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
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People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)