What’s the feasibility of tunneling the Subway-Surface trolley lined further east instead of doing a loop? (Philadelphia: buses, moving)

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by Flyers Girl

Thank you! I was going to say just this.

I will also add that when I was in Manchester, United Kingdom last summer, my husband and I were staying at his aunt's house in what you could call a suburb of Manchester. One day, we walked out the front door, to the end of her street, and hopped on the trolley. Twenty minutes later, we were in downtown Manchester. Light rail doesn't have to be "outdated," and it certainly isn't obsolete.

It's not outdated. In fact I wish there were more of them in the city and less reliance on cars.

[Sammy215267]

Originally Posted by MB1562

Who cares about character and running all modes of transit. Trollies outside the tunnels are slow and inefficient. The cars they run on the 10,11,13,34, and 36 are woefully outdated. The fact they still run those trolley cars from the 1950s on the 15 is a total embarrassment. Seriously?

The best public transit systems I've ridden have pretty much lacked originality and character, but they were incredibly clean, spacious, and efficient. My time living in Shanghai was made very easy because they prioritized a good system over "character".

Philadelphia's heavy rail coverage is pretty pathetic for a city it's size, and the fact we run woefully outdated trollies (or even the fact we run trollies at all) isn't good either.

So what do you suggest for travel outside of the trolley tunnel then ? Well by you being in Shanghai should understand things there work differently there and they are more advanced than the United States....why is it not good that we run trolley's ? But you know those vehicles are meant to last up to forty years ? SEPTA is not buying new lrv's every 10-15 years...our system is very unique.

Public transit is politics sadly , if you so much of that concern then take it to the white house.

[KoNgFooCj]

Originally Posted by kyb01

It's not outdated. In fact I wish there were more of them in the city and less reliance on cars.

I wish Philly had more rail like new york. Obviously sized down proportional to Philly's population.

[KoNgFooCj]

For instance, Philly is 2/3 the size of Chicago, city and metro wise, but it DEFINITELY doesn't have anywhere near 2/3 the amount of rapid transit track as Chicago. That's just plain stupid.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Bbobsully94

For instance, Philly is 2/3 the size of Chicago, city and metro wise, but it DEFINITELY doesn't have anywhere near 2/3 the amount of rapid transit track as Chicago. That's just plain stupid.

We got only one-sixth of the subways and elevateds the City Councils authorized way back in 1913.

That was the year the first Commissioner of the new Department of City Transit, A. Merritt Taylor, submitted to the councils (prior to 1951, this city had a bicameral municipal legislature consisting of a Common Council and a Select Council) a plan for expanding rapid transit into all parts of the city. It included a new north-south trunk line on Broad Street, with branches extending to the northeast and northwest, a new elevated line to the Northeast, heading up Frankford Avenue as far as Rhawn Street; a line to the southwest, branching off either the existing Market Street el or a new Chestnut Street subway, and a line to Roxborough via Strawberry Mansion and the Ben Franklin Parkway.

Only the Broad Street trunk line and the Frankford Elevated ever got built.

[Sammy215267]

I don't know if many people know this but Philly was supposed to have more subways than what we got. I always wonder what it would have been like to have more. But i will take what we have, there are alot of places who wish they had what we have.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Sammy215267

I don't know if many people know this but Philly was supposed to have more subways than what we got. I always wonder what it would have been like to have more. But i will take what we have, there are alot of places who wish they had what we have.

There are places where you can see hints of what was to have been:

6 SEPTA Ghost Subways and Where to Find Them | Philadelphia Magazine

Here's a bit of trivia for you:

If you include all three of the heavy rail rapid transit lines -- Broad Street, Market-Frankford, Lindenwold -- and omit the trolley subway, and do the same for Boston's Green Line, you will find that the two cities have about the same number of rapid transit route-miles. The difference is that the city of Boston - about half of which, geographically speaking, has no rapid transit service at all - could fit into Philadelphia about three times over, so the lines there extend further into that city's suburbs (only the Lindenwold Line does that here).

Include the Norristown High-Speed Line light metro in the 'burbs and the total exceeds Boston's.

[MB1562]

Originally Posted by Sammy215267

I don't know if many people know this but Philly was supposed to have more subways than what we got. I always wonder what it would have been like to have more. But i will take what we have, there are alot of places who wish they had what we have.

True, but, our heavy rail is easily the weakest by a noticeable margin of the Northeast. Having slow, dirty buses that stop every block on end along the route serving most of the city is not good. It shows too, because SEPTA is bleeding bus riders like crazy at this point because Uber/Lyft are worth the premium in comparison. If we had a more comprehensive subway system, I doubt the cost-benefit would be as strong for ride-shares.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by Bbobsully94

For instance, Philly is 2/3 the size of Chicago, city and metro wise, but it DEFINITELY doesn't have anywhere near 2/3 the amount of rapid transit track as Chicago. That's just plain stupid.

It might be advantageous for you to learn why things turned out here way they did or didn't instead of instantly saying so and so was stupid.

There was a plan to build more subways here. Google Merritt Taylor.

Also the person who owned and created the trolley network, George Widener, died on the Titanic in 1912. So did his son. Certainly that fact impacted many future mass transit efforts in Philadelphia. Remember...well you probably don't... transit was privately owned and subject to the whims of owners.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by MB1562

True, but, our heavy rail is easily the weakest by a noticeable margin of the Northeast. Having slow, dirty buses that stop every block on end along the route serving most of the city is not good. It shows too, because SEPTA is bleeding bus riders like crazy at this point because Uber/Lyft are worth the premium in comparison. If we had a more comprehensive subway system, I doubt the cost-benefit would be as strong for ride-shares.

What? The buses are among the newest parts of Septa's rolling fleet. The BSL dates from the early 80s. The MFL is 20 years old.

Think again about Uber/Lyft. You're a man so issues like curbing sexual harassment may not be a focal point for you. It is for me. Can they do what's needed to ensure safety? Many of you have concerns about street muggings.
Fine. I will not get into a car, no matter how either company marks its vehicles, with ANY male driver. Period! There are ton of incidents of drivers, shall we say, being thugs with women passengers. And good luck to them wrt going public tho.