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Wow..thanks for the amazing replies! briantroutman, great post. You know where I'm coming from. Literally and figuratively. I'm definitely looking to get away from the McMansion suburbia that is so prevalent down here in the South. Thanks to your post I've actually shifted our search from University City to Center City.
Originally I wasn't considering Center City much because I didn't think schools would be any good. But from what it seems there are actually a number of good ones in there...I had no idea. I want our son (and future kids) to have that city life and experience. I think it's good for them to not be afraid to walk down busy streets, take public transportation, be around crowds, and have a level of independence that cul-de-sac kids could only dream of.
Not to mention how amazing it will be for all of us to be able to walk to the grocery store, the market, to museums, restaurants, etc.. Hence why we want to stay in a walkable area as much as possible. The direct train line to PHL is an added bonus.
How is crime in Center City? I'm not afraid of city living by any means. We aren't your typical suburban Texans who lived in a bubble and are afraid of the outside world. Far from it..big reason why we are moving in the first place. But with that being said...since I do travel for a living I would like the peace of mind knowing that my family is safe while I'm gone. Relatively speaking, of course.
Any more suggestions or advice you guys can give would be very welcome. We are looking to move around May of next year, so we have a little time for research..plus we are planning numerous trips up starting next month to look around.
And don't worry. No Cowboys fans here Although I can easily see myself becoming an Eagles fan. I've already begun following the Phillies and Flyers! Thanks again, everyone!
Given the age of your child and things you discussed you may also want to look in Queen Village or Bella Vista. You could rent in the area in your range and get a feel for the city. The grade schools are better in these areas but many still move out to the great suburban school districts as kids get older. Both of these neighborhoods are just outside the main Center city and can be a little quieter with many things already in them and seemingly 80% of the rest of the DT within a 10-20 minute walk.
Bella Vista is closer to Broad Street subway while QV is not as easy for subway access. I lived in both and walked most of the time anyway in the city (even to grocery stores).
That said the commute to the airport is likely easier by car from either (15-20 minute drive). I usually just ubered as if you have to pay for parking it is likely cheaper. The train can be done but with some transfers and double the time
In terms of crime it is a city and has crime; I found mostly petty crime (had a bike stolen and that is prevalent) I also had a car window broken into twice
Anyway best of luck on your search
media is a great option if not in the city for all the reason mentioned
One thing for me to think about; renting you have the option to maybe take the leap into the city see if you like it and explore where to settle longer term roots.
Many people not use car shares, public transit, and car shares to get around quite easily. I don't have that luxury as my job takes via car to north jersey or the Philly burbs often. when not leaving the city or for work I almost never use my car and love that
Given the age of your child and things you discussed you may also want to look in Queen Village or Bella Vista. You could rent in the area in your range and get a feel for the city. The grade schools are better in these areas but many still move out to the great suburban school districts as kids get older. Both of these neighborhoods are just outside the main Center city and can be a little quieter with many things already in them and seemingly 80% of the rest of the DT within a 10-20 minute walk.
Bella Vista is closer to Broad Street subway while QV is not as easy for subway access. I lived in both and walked most of the time anyway in the city (even to grocery stores).
That said the commute to the airport is likely easier by car from either (15-20 minute drive). I usually just ubered as if you have to pay for parking it is likely cheaper. The train can be done but with some transfers and double the time
In terms of crime it is a city and has crime; I found mostly petty crime (had a bike stolen and that is prevalent) I also had a car window broken into twice
Anyway best of luck on your search
media is a great option if not in the city for all the reason mentioned
One thing for me to think about; renting you have the option to maybe take the leap into the city see if you like it and explore where to settle longer term roots.
Many people not use car shares, public transit, and car shares to get around quite easily. I don't have that luxury as my job takes via car to north jersey or the Philly burbs often. when not leaving the city or for work I almost never use my car and love that
True, but be cognizant that there is a limited time-frame for affordability in the city proper and surrounding neighborhoods - two to three four years max IMO. I would advise the OP, and really anyone, that wants to be a home owner in Philly to start thinking in that mindset before the only area you can afford is 30 minutes from Market St.
Okaaay, SkyVector, I'm just gonna throw this out there: Are you a Cowboys fan? 'Cause, you know, you're moving to a city where I wouldn't walk around wearing Cowboys attire.
Ha ha, just kidding, as I'm sure you know this.
I grew up in the Philly burbs and I think it's the greatest city ever, for all the reasons both you and briantroutman mentioned. (I'm only in FL because I inherited a condo that was paid-for, and now at my old age my blood is too thin to come back LOL!) I did fly up for the Eagles parade (of course) and I took a train right from the airport to center city. (It has a stop in University City, too.) I would live in the city, if I could. I still go to my dentist in center city and I just love the vibe and energy. I just don't know how having a four-year-old factors in to the equation, but I'm sure others can help.
No ones going to jump anyone for wearing sports attire lmao.
Thank you for the suggestions! I have also been seriously thinking of Spruce Hill and the University City area. Any insight into that part of town? From browsing the forums I know I need to stay east of 52nd st..but the rest of that area seems really nice.
"The Wave," as I refer to it, is crossing 52d Street, so while you'd be on the cutting edge looking west of it right now (I assume you are white), it might be someplace you could consider three to five years hence. I did pick Cobbs Creek as one of my three "Hot Neighborhoods of 2020" back in 2017 in response to a mortgage banker's request for the investor groups he runs. I think now my call was a little premature for 2020 but still a good recommendation for five years from now.
If you've read my posts elsewhere on this forum, you may discover that I'm something of a contrarian on a number of fronts. I live in Germantown, which is a neighborhood in Northwest Philadelphia - like the larger and more populous Northeast, it's a world apart from the rest of the city, but in a good way, IMO. Were you not in need of a neighborhood convenient to the airport, I'd recommend looking in Germantown, Mt. Airy and Chestnut Hill, but you are, so I won't. I will, however, recommend you spend some time up this way if you get a chance either on one of your visits or after settling in.
However, I'm going to back up and elaborate on briantroutman's excellent reply below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyVector
Wow..thanks for the amazing replies! briantroutman, great post. You know where I'm coming from. Literally and figuratively. I'm definitely looking to get away from the McMansion suburbia that is so prevalent down here in the South. Thanks to your post I've actually shifted our search from University City to Center City.
Originally I wasn't considering Center City much because I didn't think schools would be any good. But from what it seems there are actually a number of good ones in there...I had no idea. I want our son (and future kids) to have that city life and experience. I think it's good for them to not be afraid to walk down busy streets, take public transportation, be around crowds, and have a level of independence that cul-de-sac kids could only dream of.
Not to mention how amazing it will be for all of us to be able to walk to the grocery store, the market, to museums, restaurants, etc.. Hence why we want to stay in a walkable area as much as possible. The direct train line to PHL is an added bonus.
How is crime in Center City? I'm not afraid of city living by any means. We aren't your typical suburban Texans who lived in a bubble and are afraid of the outside world. Far from it..big reason why we are moving in the first place. But with that being said...since I do travel for a living I would like the peace of mind knowing that my family is safe while I'm gone. Relatively speaking, of course.
Any more suggestions or advice you guys can give would be very welcome. We are looking to move around May of next year, so we have a little time for research..plus we are planning numerous trips up starting next month to look around.
And don't worry. No Cowboys fans here Although I can easily see myself becoming an Eagles fan. I've already begun following the Phillies and Flyers! Thanks again, everyone!
briantroutman's point about the city's public schools bears repeating, and also expanding.
I have a mental file folder labeled "The Philadelphia public schools aren't as bad as their critics crack them down to be." It consists mainly of anecdotal evidence given me by parents who have their children enrolled in city public schools not named Albert M. Greenfield, Gen. George McCall, William Meredith, Samuel Powel (a K-4 school in University City's Powelton Village section) or Sadie Tanner Mosell Alexander University of Pennsylvania Partnership ("Penn Alexander").
Most of these other schools - to name a few: Andrew Jackson in East Passyunk, George Nebinger in Queen Village's southern reaches, Gen. Philip Kearney in Northern Liberties, Chester A. Arthur in Graduate Hospital, Anna Lingelbach on the Germantown/West Mt. Airy border - get mediocre or low marks on the two big school-rating sites, Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
and GreatSchools.org. Yet I've spoken with or read reviews by parents whose children are enrolled in all of these schools who state that their children are getting great educations in them from teachers who care. One Lingelbach parent, writing on GreatSchools, said bluntly that once she enrolled her child there, she realized that she had wasted $7,000 a year in private-school tuition for three years because Lingelbach offered the support and resources her child needed to thrive there while the private school did not. I've received similar feedback from two other parents of children in Lingelbach who double-teamed me after church services one Sunday in G'town, and I know an Andrew Jackson parent who was similarly enthused about that (very ethnically diverse) school (a quality Greenfield and McCall also possess). (This parent moved to Pitman, NJ, for other reasons.)
Another item to consider: The No. 1 high school in the Commonwealth, and one of the 50 best in the country per U.S. News & World Report's ratings, is a Philadelphia public school, and another Philadelphia public school is in the top 10 statewide. Both schools are citywide magnet schools with rigorous college-prep curricula, granted, and you have to pass an entrance exam (plus win a lottery at the more-highly-rated school) in order to get into them, but I would say that the fact that all the students in both are products of the city's public schools* and that most of their students do not live in Center City or University City should clue you into the fact that other schools in the city are delivering decent educations to their students. Central High, the lower-ranked of the two, also has an incredibly diverse student body; I know this from the kids I see on the Route 18 bus headed for it in the morning and streaming from it in the afternoon.
My advice to anyone considering a house in the city is: Find a neighborhood you like, then make an appointment to visit its local public school. You don't buy houses sight unseen; why choose schools that way?
*I should, however, note that some of these public schools are charter schools - independently run free public schools. You also have the option of sending your children to one of these, and they're located in several neighborhoods all over the city.
Full disclosure: I have no children in school here, nor do I think I will ever have any. I pay attention to the subject of education because of what I do to make a living: I edit the Real Estate & Home channel at Philadelphia magazine.
Most of these other schools - to name a few: Andrew Jackson in East Passyunk, George Nebinger in Queen Village's southern reaches, Gen. Philip Kearney in Northern Liberties, Chester A. Arthur in Graduate Hospital, Anna Lingelbach on the Germantown/West Mt. Airy border - get mediocre or low marks on the two big school-rating sites, Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
and GreatSchools.org. Yet I've spoken with or read reviews by parents whose children are enrolled in all of these schools who state that their children are getting great educations in them from teachers who care.
Sorry, but this is a bit delusional. I mean, anecdotal stories aside, many of the schools you listed, like Kearney and Chester Arthur are bad. Objectively so. It's one thing to be say, a 5/10 on a school rating site and being a 1/10 or 2/10. Test scores, graduation rates, and the future progress of the students isn't exactly something that is subjective. Some of the schools you listed fall near the very bottom of the rankings for ALL schools in the entire state.
I have sympathy and great admiration for the teachers and students that work their butts off every day, but the vast majority of the Philly SD is downright awful. I'm sure it's possible for a smart kid with good, involved parents to learn and thrive here, but the deck is stacked against them in every way.
Sorry, but this is a bit delusional. I mean, anecdotal stories aside, many of the schools you listed, like Kearney and Chester Arthur are bad. Objectively so. It's one thing to be say, a 5/10 on a school rating site and being a 1/10 or 2/10. Test scores, graduation rates, and the future progress of the students isn't exactly something that is subjective. Some of the schools you listed fall near the very bottom of the rankings for ALL schools in the entire state.
I have sympathy and great admiration for the teachers and students that work their butts off every day, but the vast majority of the Philly SD is downright awful. I'm sure it's possible for a smart kid with good, involved parents to learn and thrive here, but the deck is stacked against them in every way.
That such kids exist, and that there are enough of them to fill two of the 10 best high schools in the state, including the state's best and one of the country's top 50, should tell you something.
I guarantee you that not all of the students roaming the halls of Masterman and Central come from the Usual Suspect elementary schools (Greenfield, McCall, Meredith, Penn Alexander, Powel).
I'll need to look this up, but I've heard of research that shows that the single greatest factor correlating with performance in school is the parents' household income. This may be a bit of an exaggeration, but what the anecdotes tell me is that if you take parents with adequate resources and support for their kids and put their kids in "bad" schools with good teachers (they exist, but since the stats don't rate teachers, you have to find out who they are by other means), the kids will come out fine. That's certainly the message I've gotten from the three Anna Lingelbach parents whose comments I've read or who have spoken with me directly about their experience.
The one monkey wrench in this machine: Some schools do have high enough numbers of "problem" children to make learning harder for everyone else. (Merely being poor is not a "problem" in this case.)
Sky are you at A? I assume so. Keep in mind the property taxes in PA and the 3% income tax as well (which is relatively low considering). Depending on what your wife does that will add up to quite a bit. Property taxes will be higher than what they are in TX plus the $10k+ in income tax you'll pay...most places that have income tax with have a lower property tax (such as NC) but not the PA/PHL area.
I'm transferring to PHL on the last bid, out of DFW. As much as I wanted to make DFW area work that place is a concrete jungle. I really dislike it. But keep in mind the heat...Philly still gets really hot, within 8* or so of Dallas, and gets a looooot colder during the winter. A lot of the older homes do not have central air. The topography however is considerably better.
Just also get ready for the occasional huge snowstorm. I was based in PHL previously and had to deal with it, it can be a huge PITA.
Not sure where you are on the list but the mountains around CLT have been really popular, but it's an uber senior place.
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Although I can easily see myself becoming an Eagles fan. I've already begun following the Phillies and Flyers! Thanks again, everyone!
