Is Philadelphia & Vicinity Boring/Second-rate ?? (Newtown, Penn: home, living in, move)

[couldntthinkofaclevername]

Originally Posted by BPP1999

I had also learned in college that the trading ship in NYC was guaranteed to leave, whether it was 1/2 full or full, whereas in Philadelphia, the ship would only leave if it was almost full. (So even many years ago the can't-do attitude of Philadelphia was pervasive, while NYC adopted a can-do attitude). Thus, the traders went to NYC because they knew the ship would sail, and they overlooked Philadelphia. This, of course, led to rampant business growth in New York.

The stuck-up, stuck in the past attitude didn't help things either.

New York embraced modernity so much so that it's basically been a place that's "for sale" when it comes to Manhattan for decades now, same with Chicago. Personally, that's why I prefer Philadelphia and its metro to those other places because they didn't sell out nearly as much, partially due to the fact that they stopped growing and went into stagnation and then decline.

Really there's a lot of things that ended up causing Philadelphia to be so affected by New York, one of them being that New York offered more of everything that Philadelphia had. Its harbors and ports were much better positioned and larger, which besides just making it much better to do business there of course made New York city the first East Coast haven the majority of immigrants to the Eastern US would be brought to. This of course led many immigrants to see New York as "America". It had Broadway whereas Philadelphia only had a few theaters. It had Times Square (which we all know became extremely popular after WW2). It had the UN, which made New York the most powerful, important city in the US globally and second only to DC politically. It also really killed Philadelphia and its entire metro when so many industries that used to be localized became more national and even global industries, which killed every major TV and radio station Philadelphia had, not to mention Penn Railroad being broken up and Reading Railroad eventually going away too. Then you've got every major sports league headquartered in NYC, really just a ton of things. Philadelphia was way too close to New York to ever continue to be what it was when that all happened. If it were closer to DC than New York then it wouldn't have lost the amount of industries it did and it wouldn't have really been all that affected by DC at all.

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by phillies2011

The Fairmount Park System IS Philadelphia's Park System. From FDR to Rittenhouse sq, from Penn Treaty to Clark Park, and about 60 other parks throughout the city, all are a part of the fairmount park system, which also includes the eponymous Fairmount Park the large green space that is centered on the Schuylkill River.

So comparing Fairmount Park to New York's entire municipal park system is totally appropriate. Philly has less green space by a factor of three... to be fair though it also has less overall land by roughly a factor of three as well. New York is huge.

NYC is actually closer to 2x Philly in land area. It's deceptive when you look at numbers that are including water area (in both cities).

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by couldntthinkofaclevername

I stand corrected. I thought it was only the mostly connected area around Fairmount Park that included the zoo.

That part would be Fairmount Park "proper", which as I said earlier in the thread is 4100 acres, but a stretch to call a single park because it includes East Park, West Park, and the Wissahickon Valley, which are not actually contiguous.
The 9200 acre Fairmount Parks System comprises all of the city's municipal parks as was just noted (again) above.

[pman]

Originally Posted by couldntthinkofaclevername

The stuck-up, stuck in the past attitude didn't help things either.

New York embraced modernity so much so that it's basically been a place that's "for sale" when it comes to Manhattan for decades now, same with Chicago. Personally, that's why I prefer Philadelphia and its metro to those other places because they didn't sell out nearly as much, partially due to the fact that they stopped growing and went into stagnation and then decline.

Really there's a lot of things that ended up causing Philadelphia to be so affected by New York, one of them being that New York offered more of everything that Philadelphia had. Its harbors and ports were much better positioned and larger, which besides just making it much better to do business there of course made New York city the first East Coast haven the majority of immigrants to the Eastern US would be brought to. This of course led many immigrants to see New York as "America". It had Broadway whereas Philadelphia only had a few theaters. It had Times Square (which we all know became extremely popular after WW2). It had the UN, which made New York the most powerful, important city in the US globally and second only to DC politically. It also really killed Philadelphia and its entire metro when so many industries that used to be localized became more national and even global industries, which killed every major TV and radio station Philadelphia had, not to mention Penn Railroad being broken up and Reading Railroad eventually going away too. Then you've got every major sports league headquartered in NYC, really just a ton of things. Philadelphia was way too close to New York to ever continue to be what it was when that all happened. If it were closer to DC than New York then it wouldn't have lost the amount of industries it did and it wouldn't have really been all that affected by DC at all.

philadelphia went on to become the premier manufacturing city in the country, lead the way in many areas in learning and civic innovation, and provide better market rate housing for jts workers than ny ever did. that didnt die because of proximity to ny, all olser manufacturing centers died...philadelphia, pittsburgh, cleveland, buffalo.....mostly becuase of failed ideas in washington and a backdoor deal between wall st and k st to defraud america of its wealth.

[couldntthinkofaclevername]

Originally Posted by pman

philadelphia went on to become the premier manufacturing city in the country, lead the way in many areas in learning and civic innovation, and provide better market rate housing for jts workers than ny ever did. that didnt die because of proximity to ny, all olser manufacturing centers died...philadelphia, pittsburgh, cleveland, buffalo.....mostly becuase of failed ideas in washington and a backdoor deal between wall st and k st to defraud america of its wealth.

Well the whole metro was a manufacturing powerhouse, yes, but the majority of manufacturing in Philadelphia was in townships that were eventually annexed by the city after they became manufacturing centers.

Either way, that has nothing to do with what we're talking about here.

[Marius Pontmercy]

Originally Posted by couldntthinkofaclevername

Well the whole metro was a manufacturing powerhouse, yes, but the majority of manufacturing in Philadelphia was in townships that were eventually annexed by the city after they became manufacturing centers.

Either way, that has nothing to do with what we're talking about here.

The city only ever annexed land once: the Consolidation Act of 1854, long before the height of Philadelphia's manufacturing power. Most of the manufacturing centers in the city didn't even exist at this point.

Philadelphia lost it's manufacturing base the same way every other American industrial center of the 19th and early 20th century did: cheap manufactured items coming from regions with cheaper work forces. Go and look at the endless seas of rowhomes, many now abandoned and falling into ruin through North and West Philadelphia. The two story rowhouse blocks were the dream of the working class a hundred years ago. They were largely owner occupied and provided QOL that many families were experiencing for the first time in history. Now our manufactured goods come from workers who sleep 10 to a room in a dormitory complex in China. Can you guess which workforce is cheaper? The saddest part of this was that Philadelphia industry was never unprofitable, it was just not competitive. Nobody would buy a Stetson hat anymore. If it was $10 more than the comparable hat made in a factory by a worker for poverty wages than nobody would buy it. Doesn't mean we couldn't turn a profit, it just meant that by exploiting cheap labor industry could make more money, and that was always the goal. Didn't matter that the fallout almost destroyed the city if it made a few people very wealthy. Remember, most of those industries in Philadelphia didn't move to China. They were put out of business by the ones that did.

[couldntthinkofaclevername]

Originally Posted by Marius Pontmercy

The city only ever annexed land once: the Consolidation Act of 1854, long before the height of Philadelphia's manufacturing power. Most of the manufacturing centers in the city didn't even exist at this point.

Philadelphia lost it's manufacturing base the same way every other American industrial center of the 19th and early 20th century did: cheap manufactured items coming from regions with cheaper work forces. Go and look at the endless seas of rowhomes, many now abandoned and falling into ruin through North and West Philadelphia. The two story rowhouse blocks were the dream of the working class a hundred years ago. They were largely owner occupied and provided QOL that many families were experiencing for the first time in history. Now our manufactured goods come from workers who sleep 10 to a room in a dormitory complex in China. Can you guess which workforce is cheaper? The saddest part of this was that Philadelphia industry was never unprofitable, it was just not competitive. Nobody would buy a Stetson hat anymore. If it was $10 more than the comparable hat made in a factory by a worker for poverty wages than nobody would buy it. Doesn't mean we couldn't turn a profit, it just meant that by exploiting cheap labor industry could make more money, and that was always the goal. Didn't matter that the fallout almost destroyed the city if it made a few people very wealthy. Remember, most of those industries in Philadelphia didn't move to China. They were put out of business by the ones that did.

I never said Philadelphia annexed land more than once, and not every place that the city annexed was absent industry. Parts of the Northeast, to name one section, had mills and factories before it was annexed. Either way, what I was saying is that Philadelphia's industry was mainly outside of the original city limits, which you clearly just agreed with.

And considering that I come from a neighborhood that was built around industries that dried up, the second part of your post isn't exactly something you need to tell me. The whole metro experienced the same thing in former industrial powerhouses. This has nothing to do with the effect New York had on Philadelphia though, which is what the post pman responded to was about.

[downtown lover]

Philly is as good as San Francisco and Chicago. It's the same league as those cities!

[ditrying]

Just visited Phillie and didn't get any kind of vibe. No wild political tales; no "ghost" stories; no outrageous scandals or homey stories (except for the completely ridiculous reference to the wonderful staircase of the Fine Arts Museum as the "Rocky Stairs". Really, come on!) I enjoyed what I saw, but nothing that makes me say "I had a great time and can't wait to make another visit.

[2e1m5a]

Originally Posted by ditrying

Just visited Phillie and didn't get any kind of vibe. No wild political tales; no "ghost" stories; no outrageous scandals or homey stories (except for the completely ridiculous reference to the wonderful staircase of the Fine Arts Museum as the "Rocky Stairs". Really, come on!) I enjoyed what I saw, but nothing that makes me say "I had a great time and can't wait to make another visit.

Oh.