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Old 01-26-2020, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
6,085 posts, read 2,969,085 times
Reputation: 3854

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBurbs View Post
The Climate Crazies are set up for a long term disappointment. The Automobile with it's internal combustion engine is not going anywhere. With the investments made in the Highway System and the continuous upgrades, the improved efficiency in design by the auto makers and the US on the verge of energy independence, it is a clear roadway ahead.
What we've seen recently in the way of extreme weather events and changes on land (melting permafrost, the opening of a hole in the Arctic ice sheet, large chunks of Antartica calving off, disappearing glaciers, Greenland becoming green again, southeastern Australia on fire) suggests that your dismissing the anthropogenic-climate-change crowd as "climate crazies" is itself a bit crazy.

The automobile will survive because it offers a level of flexibility, speed and convenience found in no other single mode of transport. But the internal combustion engine will likely be replaced as its primary motive power by electricity or fuel cells. Big institutional investors are already starting to screen their investment decisions based on impact on the climate.
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Old 02-06-2020, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Center City, Philadelphia
4,848 posts, read 2,978,753 times
Reputation: 3151
Saw this today.


Everyone should share this and raise awareness about how damaging that craphole of a facility was.


10 US oil refineries exceeding limits for cancer-causing benzene, report finds





It's time for the stupidity to end and close it for good.
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Old 02-06-2020, 09:13 AM
 
59 posts, read 16,717 times
Reputation: 69
^^^ Saw that this morning. It frustrates me to no end that so many people are fighting to keep such a toxic, cancer-causing dump open. I realize that people depend on those jobs, but you need to weigh the good and bad. Is the preservation of ~1000 jobs worth the pollution, disease and general danger of having this place running? It's already been proven several times that it makes no sense economically, which is the least important reason. And this is all near-term reasoning; stretch out the timeline a bit and becomes akin to someone hitting you over the head with a bat that it needs to close. Honestly, how long are we going to ignore this stuff:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...ocean-currents

https://www.sciencealert.com/permafr...to-a-new-study

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...don-t-know-why
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Old 02-07-2020, 06:52 PM
 
Location: New York City
6,106 posts, read 5,491,099 times
Reputation: 3214
Quote:
Originally Posted by skintreesnail View Post
^^^ Saw that this morning. It frustrates me to no end that so many people are fighting to keep such a toxic, cancer-causing dump open. I realize that people depend on those jobs, but you need to weigh the good and bad. Is the preservation of ~1000 jobs worth the pollution, disease and general danger of having this place running? It's already been proven several times that it makes no sense economically, which is the least important reason. And this is all near-term reasoning; stretch out the timeline a bit and becomes akin to someone hitting you over the head with a bat that it needs to close. Honestly, how long are we going to ignore this stuff:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...ocean-currents

https://www.sciencealert.com/permafr...to-a-new-study

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...don-t-know-why
Plus, wouldn't the new ownership under Hilco create jobs when they decide on their plans? It might happen right away, but I don't think its a clean cut loss of 1000 jobs. This sale could create 5000 jobs over the next decade.
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,675 posts, read 7,793,281 times
Reputation: 4629
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
Plus, wouldn't the new ownership under Hilco create jobs when they decide on their plans? It might happen right away, but I don't think its a clean cut loss of 1000 jobs. This sale could create 5000 jobs over the next decade.
Not to mention more sustainable jobs not tied to the now highly volatile energy industry.

There's literally no upside to Philly for retaining a refinery. It's a massive loser environmentally and economically.
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Old 02-08-2020, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Chadds Ford
384 posts, read 163,898 times
Reputation: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
Plus, wouldn't the new ownership under Hilco create jobs when they decide on their plans? It might happen right away, but I don't think its a clean cut loss of 1000 jobs. This sale could create 5000 jobs over the next decade.
Not all jobs are created equal. An operator at a refinery (the person who turns the valves) can make six figures without a college degree. If you're an engineer with a degree, the pay is well over $100k.

Typical Worker’s Pay Nears $200,000 at Oil Refiner

There's also the hundreds of welders, carpenters, electricians, etc maintaining the place who make upwards of $100k/yr. Again, most of these these people don't have college degrees.

For comparison, a shipping/recieving clerk makes ~$30k/yr on average and an importer/exporter makes a little under $50k/yr.
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Old 02-08-2020, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,675 posts, read 7,793,281 times
Reputation: 4629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patmcpsu View Post
Not all jobs are created equal. An operator at a refinery (the person who turns the valves) can make six figures without a college degree. If you're an engineer with a degree, the pay is well over $100k.
That's very much a legacy of the past, however. Not to mention the product of many years on the job.

Anyone graduating high school and entering the workforce today has to undergo some sort of training/apprenticeship/certification program for any type of lucrative employment in any industry.

And manufacturing jobs can be equally lucrative for those without a college degree if you target the right sector (i.e., advanced manufacturing for the life sciences sector).

I do feel bad for the folks that have to find another path to gainful employment, but such is life in a capitalist economy, right? No one ever has any guarantee of job permanence, and we should put every effort into retraining as many "left behind" as possible for careers that are actually in-demand, instead of delaying the inevitable and continuing to bailout a dying and heavily polluting industry.
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Old 02-08-2020, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Center City, Philadelphia
4,848 posts, read 2,978,753 times
Reputation: 3151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patmcpsu View Post
There's also the hundreds of welders, carpenters, electricians, etc maintaining the place who make upwards of $100k/yr. Again, most of these these people don't have college degrees.

There is demand for these jobs without the cancer factory.
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Old 02-08-2020, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Chadds Ford
384 posts, read 163,898 times
Reputation: 385
I'm merely countering claims that that the new jobs would offset the old jobs and that ""There's literally no upside to Philly for retaining a refinery". High paying jobs are better than low paying jobs.

There is a trade-off; the situation is not as simple as some on here are making it seem.
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Old 02-08-2020, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Kennett Square, PA
1,777 posts, read 2,737,029 times
Reputation: 2878
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtypirate View Post
Saw this today.


Everyone should share this and raise awareness about how damaging that craphole of a facility was.


10 US oil refineries exceeding limits for cancer-causing benzene, report finds





It's time for the stupidity to end and close it for good.
Based on that chart you posted, I'd say that's the BEST argument for CASE CLOSED.
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