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Old 10-09-2019, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Dude...., I'm right here
1,191 posts, read 756,002 times
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Perhaps he was trying to disarm the kid and make center city a safer place to live. I'm certain Kamms would agree with me on this one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon08 View Post
Thanks for posting this update. Since I now live in Florida, I haven't been keeping up with the latest on the case. My question is, why are people excusing Schellenger? He's the one who got out of the car, further escalating the situation, and went ahead and attacked White even after White had shown the knife. If you attack somebody holding a knife, don't you think they're going to use it to defend themselves?
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:02 AM
 
515 posts, read 229,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon08 View Post
Thanks for posting this update. Since I now live in Florida, I haven't been keeping up with the latest on the case. My question is, why are people excusing Schellenger? He's the one who got out of the car, further escalating the situation, and went ahead and attacked White even after White had shown the knife. If you attack somebody holding a knife, don't you think they're going to use it to defend themselves?
There is only one person making excuses for Schellenger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdez View Post
This is just a very unfortunate situation altogether- could have been avoided completely. I don’t think ANYONE is innocent in this case.
Guilt/innocence isn't really the issue with Schellenger. He's clearly not guilty of committing any crime. The issue with Schellenger is being wasted and stupid and unnecessarily escalating what was already clearly a very tense situation that eventually led to his own death. If there is a angry maniac wielding a 7" knife at me, physically attacking him is the last thing I'm going to do.
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:14 AM
 
43 posts, read 10,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewtownBucks View Post
The legal standard for third degree murder is "malice aforethought", which is a lesser degree of premeditation than intent to kill (i.e. first degree) where you just have to know that what your're about to do can kill the person before you do it.


Well, I don't claim to be a legal expert, but in my layman's opinion, the fact that he had drawn the knife before Schellenger physically attacked him (which is my understanding of the timeline) should qualify as malice aforethought and therefore third degree murder. If he had reached in his bag and grabbed the knife and stabbed him after being attacked, that would be more likely to be the lesser charge IMO. In other words, he pulled the deadly weapon out before being tackled knowing that if he stabbed the guy, he could kill him. But again, Krasner and his team are the legal experts, not me. This is the legal code for manslaughter:



That seems like a slam dunk case.

The penalty for murder is 20-40 years. For voluntary manslaughter is 10-20. If he gets 15-20 years or something, that seems like an appropriate penalty for what happened. That's not nothing. He seems like a kid struggling with anger issues from a difficult childhood who made a terrible mistake. Hopefully, he can use his time for education and to be a better person when he gets out.
I thinks this sounds reasonable, although I do believe there's a case for letting the jury decide between the two charges if there's evidence. Problem is that this sounds like a case of idiot+idiot=tragedy and doesn't necessarily warrant a murder charge even if you can prove it. In any case, we don't have all the facts so it's hard to make the call. Hopefully our elected officials are making the right one.
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:37 AM
 
4,824 posts, read 3,748,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon08 View Post
Thanks for posting this update. Since I now live in Florida, I haven't been keeping up with the latest on the case. My question is, why are people excusing Schellenger? He's the one who got out of the car, further escalating the situation, and went ahead and attacked White even after White had shown the knife. If you attack somebody holding a knife, don't you think they're going to use it to defend themselves?
You as well may want to brush-up on the basic facts of this crime.

Why are people saying White was attacked when he created the entire situation, produced a large knife, yelling ''do you want this?" and then stabbed a man to death. Why then the need for all the various and false race stories produced by White and his family? Why did White flee? Why the media event staged ''turnover'' of White from his local church?

It's obvious then that anyone can walk around with a concealed deadly weapon, see and then get involved in an otherwise standard situation that you're not involved in at all as you're riding by on your bike while working, go after and angrily confront one of the individuals involved, produce a large knife that you already have pending criminal charges about carrying in a prior incident, yell out threats, and then be the party attacked, while the other party is dying on the sidewalk from the knife being full-forced and full-hilt inserted into the soon to be decedent's back (this is an extremely angry person).

Glad to know going forward, do not attempt any self-defense moves if a weapon is produced, as the party starting the confrontation and producing the weapon will be considered as being attacked and you'll be blamed for escalating the situation. Doesn't matter if you're killed, injured, or left untouched, you'll be considered the one escalating the situation and being an attacker while, as in this case, an angry stranger has a deadly weapon in direct, very close proximity to you and yelling threats (the knife in this case).

Btw, how did Schellenger getting out of the car further escalate the situation? What situation? White wasn't even there yet to create the situation. Why did White park his bike and then very angrily get involved? What was it about Schellenger that provoked such hostility in White? What could it be?

If someone produces a gun on you, you can't make a move on this person? If you do, you're the aggressor and the assailant will be considered being attacked. Self-defense is no defense, at least depending on who is involved.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:00 AM
 
4,824 posts, read 3,748,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewtownBucks View Post
There is only one person making excuses for Schellenger.

Guilt/innocence isn't really the issue with Schellenger. He's clearly not guilty of committing any crime. The issue with Schellenger is being wasted and stupid and unnecessarily escalating what was already clearly a very tense situation that eventually led to his own death. If there is a angry maniac wielding a 7" knife at me, physically attacking him is the last thing I'm going to do.
I still don't get the ''attacking him'' part of this. How did Schellenger ''attack'' White? Since Schelleger, as you state, didn't commit a crime, why couldn't he even try to defend himself against and angry maniac wielding a 7'' knife at him? Why is it called an ''attack'' on White and not a self-defense move, even if it ended in Schellenger's death?

Some people will make a move on someone with a deadly weapon is suddenly on them; it's this thing called spontaneous self-preservation instinct. Would I? Don't know, as it's all quite instantaneous. Don't think I would but not sure with the deadly weapon directly on me. Remember that dog walker a few years ago out toward Chestnut Hill I believe, when a couple 14 year olds pulled a gun on him? 50 year old man pled for his life, kid killed him anyway. Didn't make a move on the kid with the gun, but the guy is dead. So, if this guy moved on the kid with the gun and was killed anyway, he would be considered as having escalated the situation and attacking this punk?

Schellenger may have been intoxicated and wrongly more sure of himself than usual, but to blame him and say he ''attacked'' White is misplaced.

Don't be so certain as to how you would react in one of these instantaneous situations, intoxicated or not.

There's no excuse making here at all. At least with dog walker murder, those kids wanted to rob the guy; here, what was White's point for all of this? What was White's motivation? It's wasn't a robbery that would have given Schellenger an option to cooperate.

At least we agree that White is an angry maniac pulling deadly weapons out on random strangers on Philly streets.
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:12 PM
 
4,824 posts, read 3,748,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61nyc View Post


And in the interest of full disclosure, yeah I carry a knife and a can of pepper spray. this is Philly and unfortunately I have to walk my dog or take the bus at night.
and, what is the point of this statement? Other than bolstering what Schellenger did but without his own knife or pepper spray. You'll defend yourself with your hands, your illegally concealed knife, or your pepper spray but Schellenger couldn't do this?

Would you very angrily insert yourself in some strangers' parking dispute, pull out your 7'' Rambo knife, and blame the stranger you pulled the knife on for trying to take you down? Oh, and you kill the guy.

How many times have we all seen traffic exchanges between people? How many of these disputes have we gotten personally involved in that we aren't otherwise involved in, yet alone produced a deadly weapon while yelling threats at one the parties to the dispute?

Or, how about you being blamed for attacking someone that spontaneously appears and pulls a deadly weapon on you and actually kills you as a result? Whether or not you had time to produce that illegal knife or your pepper spray.

It used to be called self-defense, now it's called attacking your attacker and escalating the situation and being at fault. Unfortunately, you can't use those weapons you think you have for protection unless you want to be at fault in these scary situations. Good luck.

Last edited by Kamms; 10-09-2019 at 02:39 PM..
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:15 PM
 
188 posts, read 104,191 times
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Not taking sides here, but isn't it quite easy to blame Mr. Schellenger, who is deceased and therefore not here to defend himself?

And seriously, how was pulling out a knife appropriate in this situation? If Mr. Schellenger had a weapon himself, then I'd give it a little more justification. The man was unarmed and was KILLED.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:40 PM
 
4,824 posts, read 3,748,300 times
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So it all does come down to not being able to defend yourself against a crazy lunatic with a deadly weapon screaming threats at you, all of which happens in a flash. If you move on the crazed lunatic with the armed weapon, you are guilty of attacking the armed nut job and escalating the situation otherwise known as being at fault.

How do you know White would not have used the knife regardless of Schellenger's actions? Schellenger being intoxicated is not an issue here; sober or intoxicated, you can defend yourself, win or lose. In this case if you lose, you have ''attacked'' and ''escalated'' the situation that White is 100% responsible for creating.

So an angry lunatic screaming threats can pull a deadly weapon on any stranger and, if the target fights back, he or she is considered to be at fault? A store clerk will be considered at fault if he or she produces a gun, another weapon, or physically goes after an armed customer.

So, those using deadly weapons are subject to lesser charges if the target resists in any way, thereby causing their own death. Fascinating.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:44 PM
 
188 posts, read 104,191 times
Reputation: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
So it all does come down to not being able to defend yourself against a crazy lunatic with a deadly weapon screaming threats at you, all of which happens in a flash. If you move on the crazed lunatic with the armed weapon, you are guilty of attacking the armed nut job and escalating the situation otherwise known as being at fault.

How do you know White would not have used the knife regardless of Schellenger's actions? Schellenger being intoxicated is not an issue here; sober or intoxicated, you can defend yourself, win or lose. In this case if you lose, you have ''attacked'' and ''escalated'' the situation that White is 100% responsible for creating.

So an angry lunatic screaming threats can pull a deadly weapon on any stranger and, if the target fights back, he or she is considered to be at fault? A store clerk will be considered at fault if he or she produces a gun, another weapon, or physically goes after an armed customer.

So, those using deadly weapons are subject to lesser charges if the target resists in any way, thereby causing their own death. Fascinating.
These are my exact sentiments.
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:28 PM
 
515 posts, read 229,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
I still don't get the ''attacking him'' part of this. How did Schellenger ''attack'' White? Since Schelleger, as you state, didn't commit a crime, why couldn't he even try to defend himself against and angry maniac wielding a 7'' knife at him? Why is it called an ''attack'' on White and not a self-defense move, even if it ended in Schellenger's death?

Some people will make a move on someone with a deadly weapon is suddenly on them; it's this thing called spontaneous self-preservation instinct. Would I? Don't know, as it's all quite instantaneous. Don't think I would but not sure with the deadly weapon directly on me. Remember that dog walker a few years ago out toward Chestnut Hill I believe, when a couple 14 year olds pulled a gun on him? 50 year old man pled for his life, kid killed him anyway. Didn't make a move on the kid with the gun, but the guy is dead. So, if this guy moved on the kid with the gun and was killed anyway, he would be considered as having escalated the situation and attacking this punk?

Schellenger may have been intoxicated and wrongly more sure of himself than usual, but to blame him and say he ''attacked'' White is misplaced.

Don't be so certain as to how you would react in one of these instantaneous situations, intoxicated or not.

There's no excuse making here at all. At least with dog walker murder, those kids wanted to rob the guy; here, what was White's point for all of this? What was White's motivation? It's wasn't a robbery that would have given Schellenger an option to cooperate.

At least we agree that White is an angry maniac pulling deadly weapons out on random strangers on Philly streets.
How do you not get the attacking part?!? Every single account of the story including the eye witnesses said that Schellenger put White, who was threatening and wielding a large knife, in a bear hug and tried to slam him to the ground. That was an attack and escalation of the confrontation that was stupid and unnecessary and led to him getting himself killed when White used the large knife in his hand. How is bear hugging and slamming a guy to the ground not a physical attack (even if in self-defense)?

Schellenger didn't do anything criminal during the confrontation but that doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrong. There are FAR better ways to handle that situation (like get the F out of there and get the police...), but he was wasted and feeling macho or whatever and wasn't going to let some punk show him up.
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