Which formerly forlorn sections of the city will see the most transformative changes in the 2020s? (Philadelphia: real estate market, rental)

[banjozac]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

Very very very few people move to Philadelphia and pay wage tax, enroll their kids in private schools out of necessity and live an hour+ outside the city just because there is a park nearby. That’s kind of a ridiculous statement.

And you’re correct, not everyone can afford to live near or in the city. That’s who lives in Germantown, which is why it will retain high levels of poverty and crime for the discernible future. Just is what it is. Not sure why we’re arguing about this. I’m not bashing G-Town. Just stating the situation.

It's funny that you'd compare a forest with 58 miles of trails and natural beauty to a run-of-the-mill park. Plenty of people choose a neighborhood based on its amenities and proximity to other things. Proximity to the main streets of Chestnut Hill and Mt Airy, natural beauty, and much more spacious houses are plenty of good reasons to buy in Germantown. You pretend that it's 30 miles from Center City, but it's in reality a 30 minute regional rail trip from Chelten Ave station to City Hall. That's only 10 minutes more than my ride from Spruce Hill...

The bottom line is that Center City is not necessarily the center of the universe for all Philadelphians. I'm sure many who live in Chestnut Hill, Mt Airy, Fishtown, etc aren't necessarily heading over to Rittenhouse Square every single day.

[skintreesnail]

^^^ that's a good point, folks living in neighborhoods with a solid foundation probably hang out there most of the time. You don't need to go to center City to enjoy the Philly. I enjoy a trip out to Chestnut Hill or Fishtown just as much as old City or Rittenhouse. That's one of the things I love about this city; there are so many great neighborhoods that are really unique and have their own attractions.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

Very very very few people move to Philadelphia and pay wage tax, enroll their kids in private schools out of necessity and live an hour+ outside the city just because there is a park nearby. That’s kind of a ridiculous statement.

And you’re correct, not everyone can afford to live near or in the city. That’s who lives in Germantown, which is why it will retain high levels of poverty and crime for the discernible future. Just is what it is. Not sure why we’re arguing about this. I’m not bashing G-Town. Just stating the situation.

It is what it is, but that doesn't mean it will be for aye and evermore, or even for the foreseeable future.

Go back 10 years or so and I guarantee we'd find people sounding like you but talking about Point Breeze or West Philadelphia past 46th Street.

[Pennsport]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

It is what it is, but that doesn't mean it will be for aye and evermore, or even for the foreseeable future.

Go back 10 years or so and I guarantee we'd find people sounding like you but talking about Point Breeze or West Philadelphia past 46th Street.

Yeah possibly. I still think Germantown is just way too far out from town. The individuals who started the transformation of Point Breeze were all transplants who wanted affordablility close to the city. I guess we'll see how it all unfolds. I, for one, think Germantown will remain similar to how it is today.

[Pennsport]

Originally Posted by banjozac

It's funny that you'd compare a forest with 58 miles of trails and natural beauty to a run-of-the-mill park. Plenty of people choose a neighborhood based on its amenities and proximity to other things. Proximity to the main streets of Chestnut Hill and Mt Airy, natural beauty, and much more spacious houses are plenty of good reasons to buy in Germantown. You pretend that it's 30 miles from Center City, but it's in reality a 30 minute regional rail trip from Chelten Ave station to City Hall. That's only 10 minutes more than my ride from Spruce Hill...

The bottom line is that Center City is not necessarily the center of the universe for all Philadelphians. I'm sure many who live in Chestnut Hill, Mt Airy, Fishtown, etc aren't necessarily heading over to Rittenhouse Square every single day.

You think people move to a city to live by a forest? If you are correct though, why hasn't anything happened there? Dozens of city neighborhoods have completely transformed over the last 15 years. The park has always been there. Germantown itself has been there for hundreds of years. What exactly is holding people back from embracing the city/park life? You say " people chose a neighborhood based on its amenities and proximity to other thing." I agree, and that speaks volumes about how the people view Germantown.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

Yeah possibly. I still think Germantown is just way too far out from town. The individuals who started the transformation of Point Breeze were all transplants who wanted affordablility close to the city. I guess we'll see how it all unfolds. I, for one, think Germantown will remain similar to how it is today.

I think the reason you get blowback on that "too far out from town" argument is: Chestnut Hill, the city's second-wealthiest and second-highest-earning neighborhood, is even further away from the city center.

Northwest Philly as a whole is in okay shape, and like Northeast Philly, it's a world apart from the rest of the city - the difference being that those who originally populated the Northeast moved there to get away from Them (pick your Them, but when I capitalize that word, I usually have a specific ethnic group in mind), while those who populated the Northwest didn't have that uppermost in their minds, as the case study of Mt. Airy indicates.

But Northeast Philly is also home to Frankford, the oldest community in that part of the city. And in this discussion, Frankford and Germantown are analogs, right down to being more historic than the rest of their respective areas.

Again, though, a difference: Germantown still has a population of middle-class and up folk who remember what it was and seek to make it more like that again. There are also people working to bring Frankford back from the undead, but from what I can tell, the resources to effect that transition are actually a little weaker there - with one exception: it's on the El.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

Point Breeze is a 5 minute Uber ride to Rittenhouse Square. To address Karen's point about NL and Fishtown, same thing, except to Old City. You guys are validating my point. People want to live in or near the city. Germantown isn't anywhere near the "city." To address BR's statement, yes, new wealth and new city residents want to LIVE IN THE CITY. I don't know why this is so confusing. Might as well live in Quakertown.

Again how old are you? The edges of Center City, Old City for instance, were very crappy in the 80s. Logan Sq western part along Arch St? Pure *****. Spruce St, from 19th to 23rd, was called the Merry Go Round because of gay street prostitution. 13th St between Chestnut and Locust? A mess. Franklin Sq still had elements of the skid row neighborhood that contained it. In other words, a ton of Center City wasn't desirable at all and certainly wasn't before the CC District.

Over the last 20 year as some areas in Center City got a lot better it made it easier for the organic growth to happen beyond it, in that sense, I agree with you.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

None of this matters. Believe what you guy want. Germantown is going to be poverty-stricken and run-down for a very long time. In 10 years we'll be having the same exact discussion

This actually made me laugh outloud.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by TownDweller

I get your point, but not everyone can afford or wants to live in the neighborhoods surrounding Center City. Some want a neighborhood city experience. It's like living in Queens and Brooklyn rather than Manhattan. Or Lincoln Park/ Wicker Park in Chicago instead of the areas surrounding the Loop.

Those other places are not all garbage. Last time I looked, Germantown was Incorporated into Philadelphia in 1854 and still is.

Aldan Park is one the best and beautiful apt complexes in the city that I'm aware of. Guess where it is?

Look, Pennport is the guy who tried to tell me that black homeowners, who live in gentrifying neighborhoods, should sell their homes for pennies on the dollar to flippers so those flippers can gain all the home equity related wealth. That attitude is something I will fight against 100%.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

Very very very few people move to Philadelphia and pay wage tax, enroll their kids in private schools out of necessity and live an hour+ outside the city just because there is a park nearby. That’s kind of a ridiculous statement.

And you’re correct, not everyone can afford to live near or in the city. That’s who lives in Germantown, which is why it will retain high levels of poverty and crime for the discernible future. Just is what it is. Not sure why we’re arguing about this. I’m not bashing G-Town. Just stating the situation.

Actually you're bashing everything beyond Greater Center City you just haven't said it yet.