Philly has failed to live up to its expectation as a big city (Philadelphia: rent, incomes)

[Lenses & Lights.]

Originally Posted by FKD19124

Sounds very snobby of you. I don't like many of the things on your list and have a better understanding of the city because I have lived in it most of my life unlike the transient snobs from center city. Just because a politician may have more so called class doesn't make him a better leader!

I think you misunderstood his statement, where he mentioned one could be a classy " Postal Worker" or a " CLASSLESS Politician."

[FKD19124]

and see my response!

Originally Posted by Lenses & Lights.

I think you misunderstood his statement, where he mentioned one could be a classy " Postal Worker" or a " CLASSLESS Politician."

[FKD19124]

I its mostly affluent left wing liberals who maintain that culture that was described above but yes there are conservatives that do too. My point in my response was, how you carry yourself and treat others weighs more than going to theater, art museums, or fancy expensive restaurants. Calling someone classless, because they do not patronize those things rings of snobbery.

Originally Posted by kyb01

Most conservatives in this country always want to maintain "west civilization and culture". I definitely am in favor of supporting and preserving that culture since I'm part of that culture. So it seems curious that you are offended by parts of that culture since that very culture defines who you are as an ethnic European.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by FKD19124

I its mostly affluent left wing liberals who maintain that culture that was described above but yes there are conservatives that do too. My point in my response was, how you carry yourself and treat others weighs more than going to theater, art museums, or fancy expensive restaurants. Calling someone classless, because they do not patronize those things rings of snobbery.

I understand your point but wish to point out that there are free Orchestra neighborhood concerts, pay-what-you-wish days at the Art Museum, at least one theater company here that lets you see the show, then decide what you want to pay for it (which could be zero), and very good restaurants that don't cost an arm and a leg, not to mention plenty of supermarkets where you can buy the ingredients for a really fancy meal for far less than you'd pay to eat at those good cheap restaurants.

Not to mention programs like ArtReach that distribute tickets to music and theater performances to low-income residents for free and workshops and cultural centers like Taller Puertorriqueño that engage residents of lower-income communities in the production of art and culture.

Assuming that art and culture are only the province of the well-do-do is also presumptuous.

--MSE, onetime marketing chair, Philadelphia Gay Men's Chorus, which regularly performs in schools in neighborhoods throughout the city and suburbs

[DavePa]

Philly as many cities is a sum of its whole. Sure Philadelphia is great for a Arts scene, Orchestra, opera, Museums and trendy areas not in CC.

But a huge portion of the city has no interest in these institutions. They're more into their type of current music and its concerts at best.

In general it is promoting the higher-echelon and class aspects of the gentrifying areas promoted. You try to lessen that? Then the fighting words come, or go into still negatives as seen by locals to outside visitors. Then labels begin.

Politically, all these Classics and long established institutions have no one party rule. But education levels and wealth can bring more cultured interest in the world in general.

But some just rather forget a majority of the city in favor of the growing new elite. Not just in Philly either. Many cities are more two or more in one today more and more. Some ignore the larger parts and some can't.

[Muinteoir]

Originally Posted by DavePa

Philly as many cities is a sum of its whole. Sure Philadelphia is great for a Arts scene, Orchestra, opera, Museums and trendy areas not in CC.

But a huge portion of the city has no interest in these institutions. They're more into their type of current music and its concerts at best.

In general it is promoting the higher-echelon and class aspects of the gentrifying areas promoted. You try to lessen that? Then the fighting words come, or go into still negatives as seen by locals to outside visitors. Then labels begin.

I am trying to decipher this. Sure there are plenty of people not all too interested in the arts, orchestra, opera, and museums in Philadelphia, just as all cities have people who do not have these interests. "In general it is promoting..." who/what is this "it?" The city? Are you saying that as a fact, the city is promoting its arts scene, revitalization, and gentrification? This is no surprise, as most (all) major cities do this. What do you mean by "you try to lessen that?" Lessen that the city is promoting the arts, revitalization, etc (which you seem to have stated as a fact)? Lessen that the city is cultured? I am confused.

Politically, all these Classics and long established institutions have no one party rule. But education levels and wealth can bring more cultured interest in the world in general.

But some just rather forget a majority of the city in favor of the growing new elite. Not just in Philly either.

Mmmhmm, okay.

Many cities are more two or more in one today more and more. Some ignore the larger parts and some can't.

What does this mean?

[FKD19124]

well I think I've been to the Art Museum once my entire life and found it boring. I would rather go see the Philadelphia Orchestra which I have done in the past and have been to the theater to Phantom of the Opera and Cats. I just don't do that stuff all the time. But my point is there is a segment of people who act as if they can't be near people who don't patronize the arts or high end restaurants on a regular basis.

Also my point is that my original response to the poster about people having class or none at all was that the post came across as snooty.

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

I understand your point but wish to point out that there are free Orchestra neighborhood concerts, pay-what-you-wish days at the Art Museum, at least one theater company here that lets you see the show, then decide what you want to pay for it (which could be zero), and very good restaurants that don't cost an arm and a leg, not to mention plenty of supermarkets where you can buy the ingredients for a really fancy meal for far less than you'd pay to eat at those good cheap restaurants.

Not to mention programs like ArtReach that distribute tickets to music and theater performances to low-income residents for free and workshops and cultural centers like Taller Puertorriqueño that engage residents of lower-income communities in the production of art and culture.

Assuming that art and culture are only the province of the well-do-do is also presumptuous.

--MSE, onetime marketing chair, Philadelphia Gay Men's Chorus, which regularly performs in schools in neighborhoods throughout the city and suburbs

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Assuming that art and culture are only the province of the well-do-do is also presumptuous.

Well said, and exactly what I was thinking. Neither the "affluent" or "left wing liberals" have the corner on culture. Institutions like the PMA and the Orchestra should be and are meant to be patronized by everyone, regardless of social class or political persuasion.

It's depressing that every facet of our society has to be politicized or turned into class warfare these days. And frankly, I blame Fox News as much as I do the New York Times.

We're all actually the same, folks, whether we care to admit or not.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by FKD19124

Also my point is that my original response to the poster about people having class or none at all was that the post came across as snooty.

That was unintentional, or at least I hope it was.

I agree with your point about "class" having nothing to do with whether or not you patronize the arts. It's good that you do, not so much if you do it as a form of status display, but it's no black mark against you if you don't but know how to behave among your fellow human beings.

[FKD19124]

I patronize the arts once in a blue moon if something grabs my interest and I and generally behave among other people or treat them decently.
That original post just struck a nerve with me.

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

That was unintentional, or at least I hope it was.

I agree with your point about "class" having nothing to do with whether or not you patronize the arts. It's good that you do, not so much if you do it as a form of status display, but it's no black mark against you if you don't but know how to behave among your fellow human beings.