How's everyone doing amongst the Coronavirus shut down? (Pittsburgh, York: salary, shoppers)

[PhilliesPhan2013]

Originally Posted by moneymkt

I didnt think apts were being shown right now

Most aren't, but some leasing agents are willing to make exceptions if they can either disarm the property remotely, or if the current tenant isn't in the apartment. Me and my girlfriend preferred to do video tours, but the apartment we ended up choosing allowed us to come and see the unit without the tenant being there, so we allowed it.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

Karen, that doesn't even make sense. I'm not talking about trying to exterminate people. I hope EVERYONE stays alive through this. Your replies are slipping girl. They make less and less sense. Seriously...

I'm simply saying, given the choice, I'd prefer for ONE segment of society (any segment) suffer a catastrophic situation and the REST of society remain intact as opposed to ALL of society crashing and burning. If you don't agree with this premise, then I guess you're unbelievably selfish. Now, we can disagree about the fallout regarding virus death vs. economic collapse, but that hasn't been discussed. I've simply been raked over the coals because I believe that the greater good is more important than small groups within the greater group. Hey, everyone to their own.

I know what you are saying. I don't agree. Don't call a girl ever again.

[Muinteoir]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

Karen, that doesn't even make sense. I'm not talking about trying to exterminate people. I hope EVERYONE stays alive through this. Your replies are slipping girl. They make less and less sense. Seriously...

I'm simply saying, given the choice, I'd prefer for ONE segment of society (any segment) suffer a catastrophic situation and the REST of society remain intact as opposed to ALL of society crashing and burning. If you don't agree with this premise, then I guess you're unbelievably selfish. Now, we can disagree about the fallout regarding virus death vs. economic collapse, but that hasn't been discussed. I've simply been raked over the coals because I believe that the greater good is more important than small groups within the greater group. Hey, everyone to their own.

I think a lot (most) of us would agree with that. I think the question is, is this the correct framing of the present pandemic? Will the rest of society be able to recover from an economic recession/depression in a way that vulnerable people cannot, because their lives are literally at stake?

It is a terrible situation and very few people are happy with the stay at home orders. Who knows how and when we will recover economically, but, we can't act as though economic depression is automatically worse than inevitable deaths. Yes, economic depression itself can lead to deaths. However, I think given the wealth in this country (held by a small segment of society), with creativity, we could overcome those deaths. Until we have testing, treatment, and one day a vaccine, there is no avoiding deaths due to COVID unless we socially distance.

[DXBtoFL]

Originally Posted by Muinteoir

I think a lot (most) of us would agree with that. I think the question is, is this the correct framing of the present pandemic? Will the rest of society be able to recover from an economic recession/depression in a way that vulnerable people cannot, because their lives are literally at stake?

It is a terrible situation and very few people are happy with the stay at home orders. Who knows how and when we will recover economically, but, we can't act as though economic depression is automatically worse than inevitable deaths. Yes, economic depression itself can lead to deaths. However, I think given the wealth in this country (held by a small segment of society), with creativity, we could overcome those deaths. Until we have testing, treatment, and one day a vaccine, there is no avoiding deaths due to COVID unless we socially distance.

You already have a lot of deaths despite socially distancing.

Given what we know of the deaths, we know the virus is barely lethal to under 65 unless you have substantial preexisting health problems. The virus is more lethal to the older and frail for obvious reasons.

Detonating the US economy and heading for a 25% unemployment rate last seen during the Great Depression is perverse because that's working age people, the very demographic barely affected by the virus.

Meh. I find it interesting that Arkansas, which didn't shut down and order people to stay at home, has no worse of infection/death rates than surrounding states that did shut down and order people to stay at home. Outside NYC, the rest of America except perhaps Detroit is hardly in pandemic numbers. But people are being punished severely.

[Pennsport]

Originally Posted by Muinteoir

I think a lot (most) of us would agree with that. I think the question is, is this the correct framing of the present pandemic? Will the rest of society be able to recover from an economic recession/depression in a way that vulnerable people cannot, because their lives are literally at stake?

It is a terrible situation and very few people are happy with the stay at home orders. Who knows how and when we will recover economically, but, we can't act as though economic depression is automatically worse than inevitable deaths. Yes, economic depression itself can lead to deaths. However, I think given the wealth in this country (held by a small segment of society), with creativity, we could overcome those deaths. Until we have testing, treatment, and one day a vaccine, there is no avoiding deaths due to COVID unless we socially distance.

You could be right. I guess ultimately no one really knows. I'm only basing my opinions on what I hear from experts. From what I'm hearing and reading, the economic depression (we just hit over 30M unemployment filings this morning I believe) IS going to be considerably worse for our society if the economy remains closed, and thus the people who make up society, than ongoing continued spreading of COVID-19 with smart precautions in place. Regardless, the decisions are out of my hands, and most likely all of our hands, so arguing about this is moot. Guess we'll see what happens...

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by DXBtoFL

You already have a lot of deaths despite socially distancing.

We could have had even more had we gone the herd immunity route.

Given what we know of the deaths, we know the virus is barely lethal to under 65 unless you have substantial preexisting health problems. The virus is more lethal to the older and frail for obvious reasons.

While seniors may be the most vulnerable, people of all ages have the capacity to get sick and deal with a debilitating aftermath. Preventing the overloading of hospitals with patients is a major reason why the shutdown was encouraged.

Detonating the US economy and heading for a 25% unemployment rate last seen during the Great Depression is perverse because that's working age people, the very demographic barely affected by the virus.

They still may have the capacity to make others sick by passing along the virus.

Meh. I find it interesting that Arkansas, which didn't shut down and order people to stay at home, has no worse of infection/death rates than surrounding states that did shut down and order people to stay at home. Outside NYC, the rest of America except perhaps Detroit is hardly in pandemic numbers. But people are being punished severely.

Even considering Little Rock, the Memphis suburbs and Walmart-Land, the population density of Arkansas is relatively low. Obviously it is high along the Northeast Corridor. I would disagree that Detroit is the only major city outlier.

If economics is the main concern then there were options to consider "down 95" instead or beyond what was passed. But that would take us well off-topic...

[NewtownBucks]

Originally Posted by DXBtoFL

Given what we know of the deaths, we know the virus is barely lethal to under 65 unless you have substantial preexisting health problems.

This depends on your definitions of both "barely lethal" and "substantial". The mortality rate (actual mortality rate, not the CFR in the official stats) for the virus is about 0.5%, which means 99.5% of everyone who gets it doesn't die. For not-at-risk people, it's even lower than 0.5%. But 0.5% is still 5x higher than the last H1N1 flu, and considering that the flu is a grave danger to infants in a way that Covid is not, the mortality rate of the Covid virus is likely 10x higher or more than the worst flu viruses for adults. Furthermore, if 80% of the country is infected during this pandemic, a 0.5% mortality represents about 15m deaths in the US, which is a huge number. So, is a 99.5% chance of surviving "barely lethal" or are 15m deaths and a mortality rate 10x that of the flu a serious threat? As for comorbidities, these include obesity, diabetes, asthma, and hypertension. Are these "substantial" pre-existing conditions? A 50-year old diabetic who dies from Covid likely wouldn't have died for another 30 years from diabetes. When you look at what is included in the comorbidities, probably at least 2/3 of the country in included in the at-risk groups, so how unusual is it really that 90% of the fatalities are at-risk people?

The bottom line is that this is a very serious illness like we've never seen before. While most people for whatever reason just get mild (or even no) symptoms, people who get the bad symptoms get really, really sick. I know a couple people who have had it who have said it's the worst illness they've ever had. The breathing issues are the worst part and really scary. They said it feels like you are slowly suffocating for hours on end because you can't get enough oxygen, and even getting up to move across the room leaves you dizzy and fatigued. These people I know are NOT in any at-risk groups, they are just middle aged healthy people. They just didn't die from it, although it took weeks to recover. Even if it's only the old, frail, and sickly people who actually die in the end, it can be a very serious illness for anyone.

[thedirtypirate]

https://player.vimeo.com/video/413188178


^very cool video in support of healthcare workers.

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by thedirtypirate

https://player.vimeo.com/video/413188178


^very cool video in support of healthcare workers.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by thedirtypirate

https://player.vimeo.com/video/413188178


^very cool video in support of healthcare workers.

That was incredibly cool! Thank you for sharing.