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Old 06-09-2020, 03:36 PM
 
175 posts, read 40,050 times
Reputation: 137

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir View Post
Who's "shouting"?

It's funny, because since you seem to be using this narrative as a means of deflection, I decided to ask my black friends, one of whom is native to Philadelphia, and the other a transplant, their thoughts on some of the lines from your posts. One said he nearly spat out his drink in laughter, the other said she thinks it is highly offensive. You two cannot claim to speak for anyone else.

It is telling that you are refusing to engage with the content of my posts. Is someone going to back up the claim that "living conditions are pretty harsh and substandard for most black people," or are you going to just keep hurling mischaracterizations and deflections?
I understand you defense of Philadelphia. But none of the other posters are being hateful and if from Philly originally it is in their blood more then a transplant. Though I do get Transplants after time can take on a Endearing quality to their new city. I did in my past.

But anyway. When I saw this link I found the #1 comment to it as Priceless.

Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site

Really in the end it is the Truth of #1 and even MarketStEl could post his editorials and links. Sill views sometimes one gains and from experience are theirs and we can disagree but demand they somehow retract it or claim they are wrong? I doubt will work.

Just see it as their opinions and they posted it and probably want no heated debate on it. One gave you a link and you tore it up basically as irrelevant. Another gave their view and you disagreed and label them outsiders. If Philadelphia was home to a couple? They are still homeboys.

I am sure my comment will gain a hit below my belt. Just Chill a bit as you told me. Remember.

Last edited by Yac; 06-15-2020 at 07:36 AM..
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Old 06-09-2020, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
950 posts, read 374,346 times
Reputation: 1214
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHyping View Post
I understand you defense of Philadelphia. But none of the other posters are being hateful and if from Philly originally it is in their blood more then a transplant. Though I do get Transplants after time can take on a Endearing quality to their new city. I did in my past.

But anyway. When I saw this link I found the #1 comment to it as Priceless.

Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site

Really in the end it is the Truth of #1 and even MarketStEl could post his editorials and links. Sill views sometimes one gains and from experience are theirs and we can disagree but demand they somehow retract it or claim they are wrong? I doubt will work.

Just see it as their opinions and they posted it and probably want no heated debate on it. One gave you a link and you tore it up basically as irrelevant. Another gave their view and you disagreed and label them outsiders. If Philadelphia was home to a couple? They are still homeboys.

I am sure my comment will gain a hit below my belt. Just Chill a bit as you told me. Remember.
Thanks, Dave! No need for the pessimistic conclusion. As I’m always reminding you, I enjoy reading your posts.

No worries about the hateful bit. No concerns there from me. Only one of those posters is originally from Philadelphia.

Now Dave, you know it’s not nice to fib about my response. I actually gave him credit for his link. I also gave him some pushback on it. Everyone should be able to handle a bit of pushback.

Last edited by Yac; 06-15-2020 at 07:36 AM..
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Old 06-09-2020, 11:21 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
6,948 posts, read 3,345,697 times
Reputation: 4408
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonPanther View Post
Interesting that the 2 black people on this thread, myself and bBMM, are saying about the same thing. And being shouted down by presumably white posters saying "no you're wrong, that's not the Philly I know."
'Scuse me?

I'd love to know when I became white.

I may not have posted as much as you two, but go back through this thread; you will find some posts from me, including one bringing up an affluent black neighborhood at the top of North Philly that I've long called the city's best-kept secret.

I think that in one of the posts, however, you will find me agreeing that one reason this city isn't regarded as a "black Mecca" is because it neither contains a critical mass of nor appeals to affluent black folks.

Most of the 57 percent of black Philadelphians (if I have that "self-sufficiency standard" figure and who it applies to right; ISTR it was 57 percent of all Philadelphians, white as well as black) who can meet their basic needs on their own incomes are probably people like me who make decent salaries but not enough to propel themselves into the ranks of the affluent. A good number of those people live in the part of East Germantown on the other side of Chelten Avenue from me.

My boyfriend wants to buy a house on one of those blocks and fix it up, possibly for use as his (and my) own residence. That house is on a pretty decent tree-shaded (a rarity in Philadelphia, which is one reason many people think it looks worse than it does) block of two-story 1920s rowhouses just down from Awbury Park, which is just to the east of the Awbury Arboretum.

The house itself doesn't look like it's falling down on the outside, though there's a non-working car under a tarp in its rear driveway and the rear facade needs major work. On the inside, though, it's a total mess: water damage on most of the ceilings, lots of accumulated junk and furniture in every room. His contractor estimates he will have to spend $20k more than he will pay for this house to bring everything back up to snuff.

He did a really good job fixing up the duplexed rowhouse he lives in now in West Philly's Carroll Park/Hestonville section, so I'm sure he will do a great job with this one if he can line up the financing.

But I will back you two up on this: A lot of these houses wound up in the hands of people who couldn't afford their upkeep during the 1950s and 1960s, when blacks from the South were flocking here and white real estate agents used the influx to spread FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) among the white residents of the neighborhoods they moved into. Mount Airy gets the reputation for integration it enjoys to this day because a critical mass of white residents (and real estate agents) decided they would nip that fearmongering in the bud, welcome the new black arrivals and create an integrated neighborhood. It's not as thoroughly mixed as the stats might have one believe — East Mount Airy, which contains most of the neighborhood's lower-income residents in its southern half, is blacker than West Mount Airy — but it does have a degree of integration that's still rare not only for Philadelphia, but for most US cities.

And the fact that this happened here but failed to happen in most other US cities is a point in Philadelphia's favor.

Edited to add: And I know there are other black folks posting to this thread, though not necessarily black men (I'm one too). eliza61nyc is also African-American, as is kyb01, though both of them are female. I have this vague recollection that Lenses & Lights. has also identified themselves as black in one post or another here.
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Old 06-09-2020, 11:29 PM
 
Location: North Jackson
2,123 posts, read 3,399,355 times
Reputation: 2879
Quote:
Originally Posted by AshbyQuin View Post
I am black, my parents and my grandparents experienced an entirely different Philadelphia than the one you described.
If your parents and grandparents had money, I'm sure that not a surprise. Where did you grow up in Philly? What years? Where did your parents live before you came along? What years?
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Old 06-09-2020, 11:31 PM
 
Location: North Jackson
2,123 posts, read 3,399,355 times
Reputation: 2879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir View Post
Who's "shouting"?

It's funny, because since you seem to be using this narrative as a means of deflection, I decided to ask my black friends, one of whom is native to Philadelphia, and the other a transplant, their thoughts on some of the lines from your posts. One said he nearly spat out his drink in laughter, the other said she thinks it is highly offensive. You two cannot claim to speak for anyone else.

It is telling that you are refusing to engage with the content of my posts. Is someone going to back up the claim that "living conditions are pretty harsh and substandard for most black people," or are you going to just keep hurling mischaracterizations and deflections?
Which lines from my pay or BBMMs post, caused so much laughter and/or offense among your black friends?
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Old 06-09-2020, 11:44 PM
 
Location: North Jackson
2,123 posts, read 3,399,355 times
Reputation: 2879
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
'Scuse me?

I'd love to know when I became white.

I may not have posted as much as you two, but go back through this thread; you will find some posts from me, including one bringing up an affluent black neighborhood at the top of North Philly that I've long called the city's best-kept secret.

I think that in one of the posts, however, you will find me agreeing that one reason this city isn't regarded as a "black Mecca" is because it neither contains a critical mass of nor appeals to affluent black folks.

Most of the 57 percent of black Philadelphians (if I have that "self-sufficiency standard" figure and who it applies to right; ISTR it was 57 percent of all Philadelphians, white as well as black) who can meet their basic needs on their own incomes are probably people like me who make decent salaries but not enough to propel themselves into the ranks of the affluent. A good number of those people live in the part of East Germantown on the other side of Chelten Avenue from me.

My boyfriend wants to buy a house on one of those blocks and fix it up, possibly for use as his (and my) own residence. That house is on a pretty decent tree-shaded (a rarity in Philadelphia, which is one reason many people think it looks worse than it does) block of two-story 1920s rowhouses just down from Awbury Park, which is just to the east of the Awbury Arboretum.

The house itself doesn't look like it's falling down on the outside, though there's a non-working car under a tarp in its rear driveway and the rear facade needs major work. On the inside, though, it's a total mess: water damage on most of the ceilings, lots of accumulated junk and furniture in every room. His contractor estimates he will have to spend $20k more than he will pay for this house to bring everything back up to snuff.

He did a really good job fixing up the duplexed rowhouse he lives in now in West Philly's Carroll Park/Hestonville section, so I'm sure he will do a great job with this one if he can line up the financing.

But I will back you two up on this: A lot of these houses wound up in the hands of people who couldn't afford their upkeep during the 1950s and 1960s, when blacks from the South were flocking here and white real estate agents used the influx to spread FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) among the white residents of the neighborhoods they moved into. Mount Airy gets the reputation for integration it enjoys to this day because a critical mass of white residents (and real estate agents) decided they would nip that fearmongering in the bud, welcome the new black arrivals and create an integrated neighborhood. It's not as thoroughly mixed as the stats might have one believe — East Mount Airy, which contains most of the neighborhood's lower-income residents in its southern half, is blacker than West Mount Airy — but it does have a degree of integration that's still rare not only for Philadelphia, but for most US cities.

And the fact that this happened here but failed to happen in most other US cities is a point in Philadelphia's favor.

Edited to add: And I know there are other black folks posting to this thread, though not necessarily black men (I'm one too). eliza61nyc is also African-American, as is kyb01, though both of them are female. I have this vague recollection that Lenses & Lights. has also identified themselves as black in one post or another here.
I know you're black, MstEl. But like the others you listed, I don't think any have posted since BBMM jumped into this thread. That what I was referring to when I said "2 black people have posted..." But I do wish more black Philadelphians would jump in and tell me I'm wrong. But if they grew up and live in mt airy or west oak lane, they shouldn't be telling me what they don't know...

I grew up at 59th and Lansdowne, and i know what that whole area from 40th and Lancaster all the way to Overbrook Farms looks like. And it ain't pretty. My dad grew up in the Bottom, my uncle on Preston St. My cred is solid.

Sure we can find well maintained blocks here and there, but the majority has just not been kept up like they should. And that's true for most of West and southwest Philly not close to University City.
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Old 06-10-2020, 04:17 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
6,948 posts, read 3,345,697 times
Reputation: 4408
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonPanther View Post
I know you're black, MstEl. But like the others you listed, I don't think any have posted since BBMM jumped into this thread. That what I was referring to when I said "2 black people have posted..." But I do wish more black Philadelphians would jump in and tell me I'm wrong. But if they grew up and live in mt airy or west oak lane, they shouldn't be telling me what they don't know...

I grew up at 59th and Lansdowne, and i know what that whole area from 40th and Lancaster all the way to Overbrook Farms looks like. And it ain't pretty. My dad grew up in the Bottom, my uncle on Preston St. My cred is solid.

Sure we can find well maintained blocks here and there, but the majority has just not been kept up like they should. And that's true for most of West and southwest Philly not close to University City.
I think you know I'm not a native. I have lived here for 37 years, though, longer than I've lived anywhere else.

But your calling out West Oak Lane here I consider significant. The black folks who moved into that neighborhood could afford the upkeep on their houses, and that shows to this day. I've said to a few people, including the district Council member representing the neighborhood, that it strikes me as a Philadelphia version of the east-side Kansas City neighborhood I grew up in. (That neighborhood, by the way, has gone downhill since I left KC for college and for good in 1976. I can't say the same for West Oak Lane.)

But again, there's a tragedy of sorts: subtract the Bynum brothers' Relish restaurant in the 7100 block of Ogontz from the mix and the businesses that line its main drag strike me as less classy than the neighborhood's residents.
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Old 06-10-2020, 06:11 AM
 
Location: Greater Philadelphia
188 posts, read 39,787 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonPanther View Post
If your parents and grandparents had money, I'm sure that not a surprise. Where did you grow up in Philly? What years? Where did your parents live before you came along? What years?
Parents lived Upsal St. in Mt Airy and Cardeza St right off of Stenton. The exact years when my grandparents moved here? Not entirely sure. They migrated to Philly from Georgia and South Carolina. Parents born in the early 50s, they experienced life in the 60's, they both told me that the city began to decline in the early 70s. Had money? They had their grandparents and cousins living with them.

Last edited by AshbyQuin; 06-10-2020 at 06:14 AM.. Reason: Grandparents
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Old 06-10-2020, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
6,360 posts, read 2,686,428 times
Reputation: 4092
I’m very passively watching this thread..just for sociological purposes. I think this is odd. There an understanding and acknowledgement that Philly isn’t a black mecca/destination, per the question. A black native and a black person with a lot of Philly ties tell you the same thing. Well thought out answers, a few stats but mostly anecdotes. Not good enough? This is a subjective question aimed at black folks.

Philly is great and underrated but yea..it is what it is. No amount of keystrokes is gonna change that.
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Old 06-10-2020, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
6,360 posts, read 2,686,428 times
Reputation: 4092
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
'Scuse me?

I'd love to know when I became white.

I may not have posted as much as you two, but go back through this thread; you will find some posts from me, including one bringing up an affluent black neighborhood at the top of North Philly that I've long called the city's best-kept secret.

I think that in one of the posts, however, you will find me agreeing that one reason this city isn't regarded as a "black Mecca" is because it neither contains a critical mass of nor appeals to affluent black folks.

Most of the 57 percent of black Philadelphians (if I have that "self-sufficiency standard" figure and who it applies to right; ISTR it was 57 percent of all Philadelphians, white as well as black) who can meet their basic needs on their own incomes are probably people like me who make decent salaries but not enough to propel themselves into the ranks of the affluent. A good number of those people live in the part of East Germantown on the other side of Chelten Avenue from me.

My boyfriend wants to buy a house on one of those blocks and fix it up, possibly for use as his (and my) own residence. That house is on a pretty decent tree-shaded (a rarity in Philadelphia, which is one reason many people think it looks worse than it does) block of two-story 1920s rowhouses just down from Awbury Park, which is just to the east of the Awbury Arboretum.

The house itself doesn't look like it's falling down on the outside, though there's a non-working car under a tarp in its rear driveway and the rear facade needs major work. On the inside, though, it's a total mess: water damage on most of the ceilings, lots of accumulated junk and furniture in every room. His contractor estimates he will have to spend $20k more than he will pay for this house to bring everything back up to snuff.

He did a really good job fixing up the duplexed rowhouse he lives in now in West Philly's Carroll Park/Hestonville section, so I'm sure he will do a great job with this one if he can line up the financing.

But I will back you two up on this: A lot of these houses wound up in the hands of people who couldn't afford their upkeep during the 1950s and 1960s, when blacks from the South were flocking here and white real estate agents used the influx to spread FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) among the white residents of the neighborhoods they moved into. Mount Airy gets the reputation for integration it enjoys to this day because a critical mass of white residents (and real estate agents) decided they would nip that fearmongering in the bud, welcome the new black arrivals and create an integrated neighborhood. It's not as thoroughly mixed as the stats might have one believe — East Mount Airy, which contains most of the neighborhood's lower-income residents in its southern half, is blacker than West Mount Airy — but it does have a degree of integration that's still rare not only for Philadelphia, but for most US cities.

And the fact that this happened here but failed to happen in most other US cities is a point in Philadelphia's favor.

Edited to add: And I know there are other black folks posting to this thread, though not necessarily black men (I'm one too). eliza61nyc is also African-American, as is kyb01, though both of them are female. I have this vague recollection that Lenses & Lights. has also identified themselves as black in one post or another here.

The self sufficiency standard was for Philly in general assuming a 25.1% poverty rate. Black Philly- with a 31% poverty rate- likely has a self sufficiency standard of 50% or less.

No one saying there are wealthy or upper middle and middle income black Philadelphians. IVe met a good number from Chestnut Hill, or who went to Friends’ schools, some from trendier areas of North Philly... but yea-what you said MSE.

Successful black enclaves exist in any city with a large black population. They’re in Baltimore and Boston too, doesn’t make them black meccas...although BMORE with 2 HBCUs in city limits and AB majority black population, can begin to make that claim(unsuccessfully)
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