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Old 06-10-2020, 07:42 PM
 
Location: NYC & Media PA
387 posts, read 240,007 times
Reputation: 272

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I had originally posted this up on the crime thread but it got deleted for being off topic.

I know this will become political but what are peoples thoughts on The Great Society (widespread welfare-social programs) that LBJ introduced in the 60's and how it is now affecting the African American community.

From what I've read statistically in the early 50's black children were born into single parent households about 23 % of the time and now its well over 75%. Also before the 60's there was redlining, and now its replaced with more covert white flight.

Are we going backwards as a society ? It seems like many anarchists were hell bent on starting a race war with the riots over George Floyd.

What do we need to do to change as a society as a whole ? and I think it goes way beyond police reform

 
Old 06-10-2020, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Greater Philadelphia
188 posts, read 39,787 times
Reputation: 150
My comments have been getting "orphaned" recently in the Philadelphia forum, so I have some trepidations on fully voicing my opinions on racial issues plighting the black community. Feel free to message me and we can discuss it there. This is a great topic BTW
 
Old 06-11-2020, 12:14 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,381 posts, read 29,040,495 times
Reputation: 9757
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpranger467 View Post
I had originally posted this up on the crime thread but it got deleted for being off topic.

I know this will become political but what are peoples thoughts on The Great Society (widespread welfare-social programs) that LBJ introduced in the 60's and how it is now affecting the African American community.

From what I've read statistically in the early 50's black children were born into single parent households about 23 % of the time and now its well over 75%. Also before the 60's there was redlining, and now its replaced with more covert white flight.

Are we going backwards as a society ? It seems like many anarchists were hell bent on starting a race war with the riots over George Floyd.

What do we need to do to change as a society as a whole ? and I think it goes way beyond police reform
I think that your previous problem is that this is a national issue. Maybe you could be more specific about the local aspect. Keep in mind that Medicare was part of the Great Society.
 
Old 06-11-2020, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
950 posts, read 374,346 times
Reputation: 1214
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpranger467 View Post
I had originally posted this up on the crime thread but it got deleted for being off topic.
If you edit this in time change its orientation toward how TGS impacted Philadelphia's black community, you may save your thread. Otherwise, expect it to be deleted, sadly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AshbyQuin View Post
My comments have been getting "orphaned" recently in the Philadelphia forum, so I have some trepidations on fully voicing my opinions on racial issues plighting the black community. Feel free to message me and we can discuss it there. This is a great topic BTW
Sadly, I have grown frustrated with C-D's strict enforcement of the OT policy. A lot of great, organic conversations are either orphaned, locked, or just totally deleted. And, in my opinion, they are often de-facto on-topic, because I really do care what my fellow Philadelphians think about these topics.

Of course I don't want to read a bunch of trolls hurling insults at their political opponents, but as long as things stay civil and constructive, I really disagree with the strict enforcement of the OT policy here.
 
Old 06-11-2020, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
502 posts, read 142,820 times
Reputation: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir View Post
If you edit this in time change its orientation toward how TGS impacted Philadelphia's black community, you may save your thread. Otherwise, expect it to be deleted, sadly.

Sadly, I have grown frustrated with C-D's strict enforcement of the OT policy. A lot of great, organic conversations are either orphaned, locked, or just totally deleted. And, in my opinion, they are often de-facto on-topic, because I really do care what my fellow Philadelphians think about these topics.

Of course I don't want to read a bunch of trolls hurling insults at their political opponents, but as long as things stay civil and constructive, I really disagree with the strict enforcement of the OT policy here.
I am also frustrated when National issues that impact us all are not allowed to be discussed here. I am very interested how other Philadelphians view larger issues. Forcing then to be discussed in the Politics and other Controversies forum is a mistake. That forum is dominated by highly polarized posters and rarely holds the kind of rational, organic exchange that we get here.

It matters to me what my neighbors think about larger issues. We should be able to discuss them here.
 
Old 06-11-2020, 07:45 AM
 
8,107 posts, read 18,631,690 times
Reputation: 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpranger467 View Post
I had originally posted this up on the crime thread but it got deleted for being off topic.

I know this will become political but what are peoples thoughts on The Great Society (widespread welfare-social programs) that LBJ introduced in the 60's and how it is now affecting the African American community.

From what I've read statistically in the early 50's black children were born into single parent households about 23 % of the time and now its well over 75%. Also before the 60's there was redlining, and now its replaced with more covert white flight.

Are we going backwards as a society ? It seems like many anarchists were hell bent on starting a race war with the riots over George Floyd.

What do we need to do to change as a society as a whole ? and I think it goes way beyond police reform
Here's a good primer on the Great Society programs, lest one believe it's mostly about welfare programs.

https://www.history.com/topics/1960s/great-society

My thought is that it's not so much the Great Society programs which provide baseline services that cities and states would otherwise be unable to provide to the disproportionately poor among African-Americans as it is the aforementioned White (and for a time, general middle-class) flight, suburban tax incentives for companies to relocate to areas often out of reach or inordinately inconvenient for SEPTA, as well as outsourcing and automation of jobs away from the metro in general.

What may have accelerated single-parent homes in the African-American community here and elsewhere was the "man in the house" rule.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aid_to...the-house_rule

I don't know if anarchists were so much the issue with riots and looting locally - notwithstanding my observation of "ACAB" graffiti with the first A circled - as much as it was desperately poor people acquiring what they could in the midst of a pandemic. Anarchists were more likely to be trying to pull down the Rizzo statue.

The recent call to shift funds from the police budget to community-based services may help stabilize challenged African-American neighborhoods as it is the case with our neighbor across the Delaware. Some of those funds could go towards turning many schools into community centers that can provide various services including free/subsidized day care and other after-school activities that are age-appropriate. Adults could take GED programs as well.


Short of zeroing out the wage tax to attract businesses - which might not be affordable without state or federal subsidies - we could beef up SEPTA to put more (express) bus routes out to suburban/exurban employment centers that are traditionally short on workers so that city residents will have more access and opportunity.
 
Old 06-11-2020, 07:46 AM
 
259 posts, read 149,300 times
Reputation: 370
I, too, suspect this will be deleted for not being Philly-centric enough. But just in case it doesn't:

You raise an interesting question. I don't think the establishment of a safety net is responsible for the rise in Black single-parent households. It's something we all need and something we should be grateful exists, as imperfect as it is. Instead, there seem to be a few issues at work, including:
  • The war on drugs, which takes a disproportionate toll on minority communities and minority families, and also creates a violent drug-dealing culture that still permeates many of these areas today.
  • Decades of redlining and disinvestment, which shrunk (or eliminated) economic opportunities in poorer neighborhoods, which creates many negative societal impacts like poor housing, lack of healthy food, lack of social supports. It can also help push people into the drug culture noted above.
  • School funding structures that disproportionately hurt inner-city schools, making it harder to students to learn good decision-making and pursue educational and economic opportunities.
  • And yes, policing concerns, which help aggravate community tensions and distrust and lead to less of a focus on fighting crime.

You add all of that up, and the result is largely what we've been seeing out of these neighborhoods. My wife taught public school for several years in Wilmington, and the horror stories that came out of that job were chilling. She dealt with kids who she clearly saw had absolutely no chance in life, because of the situations they came from.

There's no one easy answer for how to address these things, but if you can at least start by ending the war on drugs and reforming policing so it's less of a constant war and more of a true community partnership, that alone would do a ton of good.
 
Old 06-11-2020, 08:48 AM
 
Location: NYC & Media PA
387 posts, read 240,007 times
Reputation: 272
I'll say I'm a very moderate Republican but do have some liberal views. First off I do believe the single parent household is a huge issue in the AA community. If one parent has to travel to suburbs for work it leaves the child with little guidance much of the day.

I also dont think there will ever be real economic gain in the AA communities until lifetime welfare dependency is addressed, we know generations of people who have been on ADC with no intentions to get off. At the same time I also believe we (citizens) should fund atleast the first 2 years of college/trade schools for people in these communities. Looking at murder rates in our large cities you can see that whatever approach we have been doing clearly isnt working.
 
Old 06-11-2020, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
950 posts, read 374,346 times
Reputation: 1214
Quote:
Originally Posted by TownDweller View Post
I am also frustrated when National issues that impact us all are not allowed to be discussed here. I am very interested how other Philadelphians view larger issues. Forcing then to be discussed in the Politics and other Controversies forum is a mistake. That forum is dominated by highly polarized posters and rarely holds the kind of rational, organic exchange that we get here.

It matters to me what my neighbors think about larger issues. We should be able to discuss them here.
I completely agree. The Politics Forum is a cesspool of trolls. It takes about five seconds for me to facepalm while trying to read there. On these local and state forums, it's more likely for members to remain civil when they feel virtually "acquainted" to one another. Why not allow us some flexibility? A thread was recently closed in the Pennsylvania Forum whilst members were discussing the viability of VP picks in Pennsylvania.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FindingZen View Post
The recent call to shift funds from the police budget to community-based services may help stabilize challenged African-American neighborhoods as it is the case with our neighbor across the Delaware. Some of those funds could go towards turning many schools into community centers that can provide various services including free/subsidized day care and other after-school activities that are age-appropriate. Adults could take GED programs as well.


Short of zeroing out the wage tax to attract businesses - which might not be affordable without state or federal subsidies - we could beef up SEPTA to put more (express) bus routes out to suburban/exurban employment centers that are traditionally short on workers so that city residents will have more access and opportunity.
Yes, imagine the possibilities in Philadelphia if we were to decrease funding in police and prisons (reactive social programs) -- at both a city and state level -- and increase funding in organic community revitalization programs (proactive programs). And no, I am not calling for a childish anarchy where violent people are held unaccountable. I am calling for more prudent and efficient public safety measures, and more robust social programs that will lift citizens out of the conditions that make crime a last-ditch endeavor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireshaker View Post
I, too, suspect this will be deleted for not being Philly-centric enough. But just in case it doesn't:

You raise an interesting question. I don't think the establishment of a safety net is responsible for the rise in Black single-parent households. It's something we all need and something we should be grateful exists, as imperfect as it is. Instead, there seem to be a few issues at work, including:
  • The war on drugs, which takes a disproportionate toll on minority communities and minority families, and also creates a violent drug-dealing culture that still permeates many of these areas today.
  • Decades of redlining and disinvestment, which shrunk (or eliminated) economic opportunities in poorer neighborhoods, which creates many negative societal impacts like poor housing, lack of healthy food, lack of social supports. It can also help push people into the drug culture noted above.
  • School funding structures that disproportionately hurt inner-city schools, making it harder to students to learn good decision-making and pursue educational and economic opportunities.
  • And yes, policing concerns, which help aggravate community tensions and distrust and lead to less of a focus on fighting crime.

You add all of that up, and the result is largely what we've been seeing out of these neighborhoods. My wife taught public school for several years in Wilmington, and the horror stories that came out of that job were chilling. She dealt with kids who she clearly saw had absolutely no chance in life, because of the situations they came from.

There's no one easy answer for how to address these things, but if you can at least start by ending the war on drugs and reforming policing so it's less of a constant war and more of a true community partnership, that alone would do a ton of good.
+1. I work in a public school in Philadelphia, and it really does give you an intimate glimpse into cyclical poverty. People who have little to no contact with our nation's youth who are living in poverty want to call for "individual responsibility," yet they have no understanding of what childhood trauma does to developing brains.
 
Old 06-11-2020, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
502 posts, read 142,820 times
Reputation: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpranger467 View Post
At the same time I also believe we (citizens) should fund atleast the first 2 years of college/trade schools for people in these communities. Looking at murder rates in our large cities you can see that whatever approach we have been doing clearly isnt working.
I for one would love to see what would happen in Philadelphia if college/trade school was publicly funded. Particularly if private partnerships can be designed to give real experience and some income while learning.

I have long believed there is too much emphasis on four year degrees when useable technical skills can be gained in a much shorter time horizon.

In impoverished areas of Philadelphia, this could help catalyze upward movement and a pathway out of the debilitating cycle.
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