Tons moving to PA from NJ NY!? (Philadelphia, York: cul-de-sac, crime)

[jessxwrites89]

Originally Posted by banjozac

That’s not what this topic is about. Let’s try not to derail this thread.

Yes it is. It really depends on where you're looking. Now I wonder if all these people that are moving from NJ or NY, will increase the cost of living because of demand.

[bluewin888]

Meanwhile , many people in PA WILL move to other lower cost places.



And people will move back to ny nj if something happens.

Originally Posted by jessxwrites89

Yes it is. It really depends on where you're looking. Now I wonder if all these people that are moving from NJ or NY, will increase the cost of living because of demand.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by jessxwrites89

Yes it is. It really depends on where you're looking. Now I wonder if all these people that are moving from NJ or NY, will increase the cost of living because of demand.

In Philadelphia proper, yes. But prices rising in Philadelphia are not 100% attributable to New Yorkers moving in. Philadelphia is a very large, cultures, diverse, cosmopolitan city that is improving year after year... That is what drives the prices up. New Yorkers wanting in is just the extra icing.
Regardless, outside of a few neighborhoods, I don't see Philadelphia reaching NYC or DC pricing for quite some time. There is still a lot of room for growth and improvement.

To your other points, NY does offer more employment opportunity and general work connections, and that is one of the biggest hindrances for Philadelphia, and its leadership isn't doing much to change that.
The Philadelphia suburbs do a better job at business marketing/providing a more business friendly environment than the city and that says something...
I live in NYC now and would prefer to live in Philadelphia but work is keeping me in NYC, at least for a while longer.

Originally Posted by bluewin888

Meanwhile , many people in PA WILL move to other lower cost places.

And people will move back to ny nj if something happens.

That is just the cycle of movement. Regardless of trends and whats hot and not, PA and Philadelphia are in a more advantageous position for growth than NY, NJ and other high cost states.

[geb5101h]

I moved from Manhattan to Philly 1 year ago due to my wife's career (medicine). Ultimately, migration is going to be a function of jobs. This is a great area for some careers (higher ed, medicine). New York still has a much larger, diverse and robust job market for most sectors, and pay for many jobs is significantly higher. I work in the technology industry and still took Amtrak to my job in NYC 2-3 days a week pre-covid.

For that reason most New Yorkers considering leaving I know are looking in NY/NJ/CT suburbs. For the right person, Philly metro would be attractive, with more affordable real estate and some very good school districts, particularly if you have family here already. But don't expect a huge wave unless the labor market changes.

[Pennsport]

Originally Posted by geb5101h

I moved from Manhattan to Philly 1 year ago due to my wife's career (medicine). Ultimately, migration is going to be a function of jobs. This is a great area for some careers (higher ed, medicine). New York still has a much larger, diverse and robust job market for most sectors, and pay for many jobs is significantly higher. I work in the technology industry and still took Amtrak to my job in NYC 2-3 days a week pre-covid.

For that reason most New Yorkers considering leaving I know are looking in NY/NJ/CT suburbs. For the right person, Philly metro would be attractive, with more affordable real estate and some very good school districts, particularly if you have family here already. But don't expect a huge wave unless the labor market changes.

Very true - jobs are (or maybe more accurately, were) the main drivers of residential location. Now that COVID has effectively served as a proof point for remote working, I'm not sure NYC is going to be all that attractive moving forward. Unlike say a London or similar city, NYC has several somewhat comparable urban metros nearby. If a job no longer dictates the need to rent a 4k/month studio apartment in Manhattan, then really the only reason for living there for the very cool and one of a kind city vibe. For better or worse, I envision a moderate exodus from NYC to Philly in the not too distant future.

Edit to add: Based on your post (wife in medicine, you in IT), I'm guessing you are quite well-off. You might not be thinking about the average 20-30-something New Yorker. For every family unit making 500k or more a year, there are hundreds of singles making 75k in an advertising or PR agency, living with 4 people in some dirty walk-up. My company is HQed in NYC, so I know plenty of this demographic. They would be thrilled to work remotely from their own apartment in center city Philly and actually save a few dollars a month.

[bluewin888]

Many people can live and make money anywhere as long as there is internet.


Nj/ny are too polluted and congested and stressed and heavily taxed. And too COLD.

[geb5101h]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

Very true - jobs are (or maybe more accurately, were) the main drivers of residential location. Now that COVID has effectively served as a proof point for remote working, I'm not sure NYC is going to be all that attractive moving forward. Unlike say a London or similar city, NYC has several somewhat comparable urban metros nearby. If a job no longer dictates the need to rent a 4k/month studio apartment in Manhattan, then really the only reason for living there for the very cool and one of a kind city vibe. For better or worse, I envision a moderate exodus from NYC to Philly in the not too distant future.

Edit to add: Based on your post (wife in medicine, you in IT), I'm guessing you are quite well-off. You might not be thinking about the average 20-30-something New Yorker. For every family unit making 500k or more a year, there are hundreds of singles making 75k in an advertising or PR agency, living with 4 people in some dirty walk-up. My company is HQed in NYC, so I know plenty of this demographic. They would be thrilled to work remotely from their own apartment in center city Philly and actually save a few dollars a month.

Having done WFH part time for the last year, I am not as sure as others it will be as ubiquitous now as it was post-covid. It's harder to form connections with colleagues, and it doesn't work well if some team members are remote and others are on-site.

There are definitely jobs (media, recruiting, start-ups) I expect to go remote. But I think people will generally decide where to go based on family.

Philly is underrated, and I think there will be movement here, but there will be a limit

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by geb5101h

Having done WFH part time for the last year, I am not as sure as others it will be as ubiquitous now as it was post-covid. It's harder to form connections with colleagues, and it doesn't work well if some team members are remote and others are on-site.

There are definitely jobs (media, recruiting, start-ups) I expect to go remote. But I think people will generally decide where to go based on family.

Philly is underrated, and I think there will be movement here, but there will be a limit

I'm in media, and it looks like most of us in this dodge are getting used to working from home — but: If you've been watching any TV interview program or news program where banter among the hosts or between host(s) and guest(s) is a major portion of the content, you should note that there really is a difference between having three or four people sitting around a table (or on couches next to one another) talking and three or four talking heads each in their own frames. The ease of banter, the casual intermixing, the interjections (when they occur, which is usually less often) just don't happen as easily or naturally.

And that goes to your other point. Articles I've read suggest that while productivity doesn't take a hit, or maybe even improves, in a WFH office, innovation suffers because the kind of close collaboration that drives innovation no longer exists.

[DXBtoFL]

I am leaving Philadelphia after being here barely a year. And it's because of WFH. We are a consulting firm with a sizable footprint and are aggressively moving more permanently to a WFH model with occasional visits to the office. Many of our senior consultants were already doing this unofficially. So I no longer need to be close to the Philadelphia office and have decided to move to Maryland, designating the DC office as my home office base but I will probably buy in either Annapolis or Baltimore, and take the train periodically to Philadelphia or DC to show my face and remind people I still exist. I know Annapolis and Baltimore well, with family and friends in both cities, while I'm still a stranger in Philadelphia. And screw the wage tax.

I will miss the daily office interaction but most of my coworkers are taking advantage of WFH too, so there's little reason to go in daily. Being close to DC puts me in proximity of a much bigger job market too, should I ever elect to look for a new position.

I must say I've never witnessed such a year of unexpected upheavals and turmoil. The world seemed calm and predictable in January and six months later the future is now utterly unpredictable.

Even if I'd decided to stay in Philadelphia, I certainly wouldn't be buying in the city. All our staff now WFH in the suburbs are no longer paying the wage tax, and city politics have become unexpectedly tense and angry (although the signs were there even a year ago). I can see some cities, Philadelphia included, having a difficult decade ahead of them, physically, politically and crime.

[Pennsport]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

I'm in media, and it looks like most of us in this dodge are getting used to working from home — but: If you've been watching any TV interview program or news program where banter among the hosts or between host(s) and guest(s) is a major portion of the content, you should note that there really is a difference between having three or four people sitting around a table (or on couches next to one another) talking and three or four talking heads each in their own frames. The ease of banter, the casual intermixing, the interjections (when they occur, which is usually less often) just don't happen as easily or naturally.

And that goes to your other point. Articles I've read suggest that while productivity doesn't take a hit, or maybe even improves, in a WFH office, innovation suffers because the kind of close collaboration that drives innovation no longer exists.

There will always be industries and functions that demand in-person arrangements, but the upside of WFH is just too big for us ever to go back to "normal." For millions of us in marketing, finance, legal, compliance, procurement, project management etc... it will probably be some sort of office/WFH hybrid until we develop technology to advance Zoom and WebEx to some crazy real-time hologram situation (literally mimicking in-person meetings). We were headed in this direction anyway. COVID just expedited it.

The savings companies could realize, the extra family/free time people will have, the reduction of childcare expense, the reduction of pollution and traffic accidents, the ability to dress casually and comfortably everyday, the opportunities to take mid-day breaks and exercise, etc, etc, etc... simply can't be ignored.

We're talking about billions and billions of dollars in savings, massive pollution reductions and potential emotional/physical wellness that Americans haven't experienced for decades. Of course this will come at the cost of commercial construction contraction, car industry collapse, child care and clothing company industries cut in half, to name a few. Ironically, the good news is we no longer actually make anything in this country, so we'll probably experience a lot less pain than the rest of the world who depend on exporting goods. It is what it is, but crazy commutes to sit in an office five days a week for many is officially over.