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Many non-blacks, immigrants and conservatives state that the success of immigrants is a testament to the opportunity within the United States and that hard work and a great education is the reason for their success without any recognition of the systemic inter-generational racism that continue to impede the progress of Black descendants of slavery and contribute to the ever-increasing wealth gap.
Despite the systemic institutional racism, persistent wage-gap, persistent wealth gap, ongoing job discrimination, housing discrimination, maternal health care irregularities, environmental discrimination, etc., the majority of Black descendants of slavery have made progress.
Except there are whites that experience generational poverty as well. You're making this about race when it's not.
If you want to see racism in action, go to Europe or Asia.
Earlier this afternoon, I heard really obnoxious reporting on the radio. I couldn't catch the name of the reporter- on KYW (car radio) but she was saying that there were police in swat gear as well as the national guard, and "so many" perhaps hundreds of people there to "protest or honor" the memory of WW. The police have cordoned off some streets, and so far there has been no violence.
I was so disgusted with reporting. Like she was disappointed to not be in the thick of it.
And people wonder why so many have had it with media.
Lots of different facets to this discussion, but I just want to comment on one. At least one person has asked "Why 14 shots?"
Many people today don't have first hand experience with firearms or the effect of bullets on living targets ("terminal ballistics"). Their "knowledge" of shooting is often based on what they see on TV or in the movies where a bad guy is shot once and instantly crumples to the ground. This doesn't usually happen in the real world.
The most common police handgun round is the 9 mm. Most handgun calibers are under powered for use on animals the size of humans - including the 9 mm. The accepted calibers for hunting deer (a thin-skinned animal roughly the size of a person) are several times more powerful than a 9 mm.
Instant incapacitation only occurs if the bullet strikes the brain or spinal cord. Even "good hits" in the chest only incapacitate after enough bleeding to cause a drastic drop in blood pressure. Also, when the target is moving, one can expect peripheral non-lethal shots in the extremities, etc. Of course, sometimes the target will realize he's been shot and give up - but he remains capable of continuing the fight if he wants.
There are new stories all the time of someone getting shot, then running across the street or up the block and dying sometime later. In these cases, the person has sustained a mortal wound, but incapacitation and death are not immediate.
You don't have to take my word for it. There are videos on the internet of people getting shot. Often, after being shot once or twice, there is no immediate effect on the target. After some seconds (especially if additional shots hit the target), the target may start to stumble or fall over.
Trayvon Martin was shot once through the heart at close range. I remember when the medical expert testified at George Zimmerman's trial, he told the courtroom that Martin was not immediately incapacitated and the courtroom couldn't believe that getting shot through the heart did not immediately incapacitate Martin. Again, that would ALWAYS happen in the movies. In fact, after getting shot through the heart, Martin had a short conversation with George Zimmerman, the shooter.
Lots of different facets to this discussion, but I just want to comment on one. At least one person has asked "Why 14 shots?"
Many people today don't have first hand experience with firearms or the effect of bullets on living targets ("terminal ballistics"). Their "knowledge" of shooting is often based on what they see on TV or in the movies where a bad guy is shot once and instantly crumples to the ground. This doesn't usually happen in the real world.
The most common police handgun round is the 9 mm. Most handgun calibers are under powered for use on animals the size of humans - including the 9 mm. The accepted calibers for hunting deer (a thin-skinned animal roughly the size of a person) are several times more powerful than a 9 mm.
Instant incapacitation only occurs if the bullet strikes the brain or spinal cord. Even "good hits" in the chest only incapacitate after enough bleeding to cause a drastic drop in blood pressure. Also, when the target is moving, one can expect peripheral non-lethal shots in the extremities, etc. Of course, sometimes the target will realize he's been shot and give up - but he remains capable of continuing the fight if he wants.
There are new stories all the time of someone getting shot, then running across the street or up the block and dying sometime later. In these cases, the person has sustained a mortal wound, but incapacitation and death are not immediate.
You don't have to take my word for it. There are videos on the internet of people getting shot. Often, after being shot once or twice, there is no immediate effect on the target. After some seconds (especially if additional shots hit the target), the target may start to stumble or fall over.
Trayvon Martin was shot once through the heart at close range. I remember when the medical expert testified at George Zimmerman's trial, he told the courtroom that Martin was not immediately incapacitated and the courtroom couldn't believe that getting shot through the heart did not immediately incapacitate Martin. Again, that would ALWAYS happen in the movies. In fact, after getting shot through the heart, Martin had a short conversation with George Zimmerman, the shooter.
Points like this are completely missing in many of the discussions about shootings nationwide. So many people have a "degree" but lack knowledge about what happens in the real world. Social media justice has people reeling over a short video that can provide neither the context of the real situation nor the reality from a real criminal justice perspective.
Most people have never even shot a deer. I have. You shoot a deer with a high-powered rifle with a slug and the deer can run for miles, even while losing a substantial amount of blood. Most of the people commenting or protesting think the police should have laid their guns on the ground and given a heart-wrenching speech to get the assailant to tear up and hug it out.
It will be interesting to see if the police will be expected to use the newly expedited tasers in situations that are inappropriate. I know our commenters and protesters will be watching over the police's shoulders ever time there is a situation, complaining they should have used a taser when a knife-wielding man was approaching aggressively. Expect our police to either be criminalized or put in real danger in these situations. This is what happens when you take a spoiled and entitled society and given them technology, unlimited credit, and a sense of righteousness. Just like the group of white women with signs by the road the other day holding BLMs signs in a lily white part of Montco. I'm sure they went back to their segregated neighborhood to pick up their children from their segregated private schools. Meanwhile, black residents in poor/violent neighborhoods get no assistance or support from these groups of protesters. Just ignore them and villain-ize the police.
Points like this are completely missing in many of the discussions about shootings nationwide. So many people have a "degree" but lack knowledge about what happens in the real world. Social media justice has people reeling over a short video that can provide neither the context of the real situation nor the reality from a real criminal justice perspective.
Most people have never even shot a deer. I have. You shoot a deer with a high-powered rifle with a slug and the deer can run for miles, even while losing a substantial amount of blood. Most of the people commenting or protesting think the police should have laid their guns on the ground and given a heart-wrenching speech to get the assailant to tear up and hug it out.
It will be interesting to see if the police will be expected to use the newly expedited tasers in situations that are inappropriate. I know our commenters and protesters will be watching over the police's shoulders ever time there is a situation, complaining they should have used a taser when a knife-wielding man was approaching aggressively. Expect our police to either be criminalized or put in real danger in these situations. This is what happens when you take a spoiled and entitled society and given them technology, unlimited credit, and a sense of righteousness. Just like the group of white women with signs by the road the other day holding BLMs signs in a lily white part of Montco. I'm sure they went back to their segregated neighborhood to pick up their children from their segregated private schools. Meanwhile, black residents in poor/violent neighborhoods get no assistance or support from these groups of protesters. Just ignore them and villain-ize the police.
This is actually a very salient point, and it also touches on what may actually be the real problem with policing in Black neighborhoods.
It does relate to use of excessive force, however, and it's this: Are the police trained to be part of the community they protect and serve or are they trained to occupy it?
Many people who have either studied or observed police at work in low-income Black neighborhoods have said that effective policing is actually community-relations work at heart. Eagles safety Malcolm Jenkins, who made public safety the theme of his 2019 season with a series of articles in The Philadelphia Citizen, wrote about a ride-along he did with a city cop. His main observation was along these lines:
The people sitting on their porches probably know who did what. The cops would love to know too, and the neighborhood would be safer if they did. The residents would like that too, but they don't trust the cops to do the job the right way.
This may result from misunderstanding of the use of violent force (most of us have never used it, so we don't know the fine details of bullets or ballistics), but it may also result from police training that posits them as warriors rather than guardians. Combined with racial prejudice on the part of some officers, this can make for frosty relations between cops and citizens.
I have lately been using what I've read about Camden as an example of the whole "policing as community relations" principle at work. Most of you should know that city did disband its police force as a cost-saving move. The city police department (and its union) were replaced with a new police department run by Camden County. (The city FOP didn't like the terms of employment being offered, so the department began life as a non-union outfit. Its officers have since joined the New Jersey state FOP.)
The new police commander told the officers that their very first job was to get to know the people in the neighborhoods they were patrolling. That meant things like hosting cookouts and participating in neighborhood events.
Crime has fallen significantly in Camden since the county police force took over. I don't think that the community-relations emphasis and the drop in crime are purely coincidental. The former builds trust, and it's trust that's missing in most Black neighborhoods right now.
This is actually a very salient point, and it also touches on what may actually be the real problem with policing in Black neighborhoods.
It does relate to use of excessive force, however, and it's this: Are the police trained to be part of the community they protect and serve or are they trained to occupy it?
Many people who have either studied or observed police at work in low-income Black neighborhoods have said that effective policing is actually community-relations work at heart. Eagles safety Malcolm Jenkins, who made public safety the theme of his 2019 season with a series of articles in The Philadelphia Citizen, wrote about a ride-along he did with a city cop. His main observation was along these lines:
The people sitting on their porches probably know who did what. The cops would love to know too, and the neighborhood would be safer if they did. The residents would like that too, but they don't trust the cops to do the job the right way.
This may result from misunderstanding of the use of violent force (most of us have never used it, so we don't know the fine details of bullets or ballistics), but it may also result from police training that posits them as warriors rather than guardians. Combined with racial prejudice on the part of some officers, this can make for frosty relations between cops and citizens.
I have lately been using what I've read about Camden as an example of the whole "policing as community relations" principle at work. Most of you should know that city did disband its police force as a cost-saving move. The city police department (and its union) were replaced with a new police department run by Camden County. (The city FOP didn't like the terms of employment being offered, so the department began life as a non-union outfit. Its officers have since joined the New Jersey state FOP.)
The new police commander told the officers that their very first job was to get to know the people in the neighborhoods they were patrolling. That meant things like hosting cookouts and participating in neighborhood events.
Crime has fallen significantly in Camden since the county police force took over. I don't think that the community-relations emphasis and the drop in crime are purely coincidental. The former builds trust, and it's trust that's missing in most Black neighborhoods right now.
That is all true. We need a police force with community-relations at its heart, and also a community that supports the police. And when there is trouble, the officers should use the proper force, and the average citizen needs to WAIT until a proper, thorough review has been conducted when violent outcomes inevitably do occur.
So, is it politics that stands in the way of making the appropriate changes? I know Outlaw has stated that that's an important component of policing, but can you REALLY take existing officers who have been struggling with these communities for years and train them? And even if you can, can the community trust the police? I know in Camden, they brought in a whole new force/personnel. That would be a huge commitment in a city as large as Philly.
That is all true. We need a police force with community-relations at its heart, and also a community that supports the police.
That's a chicken-and-egg conundrum. For poorer communities of color, one can draw a line at least six decades long to detail how they reached the current tendency to distrust police.
Except there are whites that experience generational poverty as well. You're making this about race when it's not.
If you want to see racism in action, go to Europe or Asia.
Black, Hispanic and Native Americans in particular - although the latter doesn't exist in particularly large numbers here in Philadelphia - are disproportionately poor relative to their respective populations and compared to White Americans. I would agree that class is involved per your reference to generational poverty among White people but systemic racism is the major driver. After all, when this country was founded right here in the spirit of "independence", it came at the cost of freedom for the indigenous people - locally, the Lenni-Lenape community - as well as the African people that provided free involuntary labor.
That's a chicken-and-egg conundrum. For poorer communities of color, one can draw a line at least six decades long to detail how they reached the current tendency to distrust police.
I'm not so sure. The only realistic approach is to have a new police force that will build relationships and take time to build that trust. The time to build that trust may be substantial, but that is the only way. There is no way to imbue trust within the citizenry without this up-hill investment.
The other two options are 1) it stays the same which is not working, and 2) pull the police out completely, which is not an option.
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