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Old 10-28-2020, 06:41 AM
 
12,921 posts, read 29,886,967 times
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Thread opened after review and removal of off topic, orphaned, and racist comments. Please be kind to each other. I suspect we're all on edge.
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Last edited by toobusytoday; 10-28-2020 at 02:44 PM..
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Old 10-28-2020, 03:27 PM
 
273 posts, read 1,324,065 times
Reputation: 94
Terrible, tragic situation. It appears the two officers did not have tasers. Multiple 911 calls from the residence through the morning and afternoon. (as well as multiple calls throughout the summer).

An unstable, mentally ill individual armed with a knife during the altercation.
No easy answers here. Lack of mental health support/services or access to rehab, etc. adds up to people spiraling into crisis.
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Old 10-28-2020, 03:34 PM
 
141 posts, read 36,683 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by thesixth View Post
Terrible, tragic situation. It appears the two officers did not have tasers. Multiple 911 calls from the residence through the morning and afternoon. (as well as multiple calls throughout the summer).

An unstable, mentally ill individual armed with a knife during the altercation.
No easy answers here. Lack of mental health support/services or access to rehab, etc. adds up to people spiraling into crisis.
All true. Reddog said it before (I think), but this situation needed to get under control before the police even showed up. Some mental health services were needed.

It is upsetting that people are mad at the officers. And then there is the looting. Seeing people walking out of smashed windows with TVs because of this tragedy certainly does not help the change.
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Old 10-28-2020, 05:25 PM
 
Location: 215 (MontCo)
498 posts, read 131,892 times
Reputation: 335
There were plenty of people around, why didn't any of them try to stop or subdue Walter? They knew he has mental illness, and history of aggression. Apologies if I come across as harsh but the bystanders failed Mr Wallace.
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Old 10-28-2020, 07:07 PM
 
141 posts, read 36,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AshbyQuin View Post
There were plenty of people around, why didn't any of them try to stop or subdue Walter? They knew he has mental illness, and history of aggression. Apologies if I come across as harsh but the bystanders failed Mr Wallace.
If you have watched the video, it is pretty clear the bystanders were just as scared as the police. He was walking around angry with a knife. Would you want to try to subdue him? Have you ever been stabbed with a knife?
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Old 10-28-2020, 09:29 PM
 
4,259 posts, read 3,908,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61nyc View Post
That is called the wild wild west mentality.

Police are not supposed to be Gestapo agents. Im glad the family lawyers up and I'm hoping they also sue the police union.
first of all, even if he was a supposedly "thug" where is the constitution that you are always screaming about.? I thought the policy was arrest, charge and have a trial. NOT shoot 14 bullets in you.

and when did the police become God that you cannot question them? I laugh how the right is always screaming about the right to not wear mask yet the gestapo agents get the right to do whatever they want and we have to "comply"....



Not sure why you asked that silly question. Was the suspect killed for questioning the police, or for charging at them with a knife? For the record, I am politically middle-left not right. Don't automatically assume that pro-LE citizens are "the right".
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Old 10-29-2020, 01:28 AM
 
4,329 posts, read 8,183,739 times
Reputation: 5383
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ondoner View Post
Why wasn't the suspect tased? The city should be made to pay for damages to local businesses out of the policing budget.

The officers did not have tasers, as the department does not have the money to provide them.
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Old 10-29-2020, 04:21 AM
 
8,324 posts, read 8,714,136 times
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Police need more training in how to DE-escalate a situation. And more patience. Do they have to wrap up every call and be back at the station in 20 minutes?

I have not seen the video and don't want to because of what it depicts. So I just have a lot of questions.

Was the block closed off? or were there others within his vicinity? -- close enough that he could have stabbed them -- in one lunge..... Other than his mom, who a friend told me was close enough that police told her to get back.

Police knew they were going to a "mental illness" call.
IF the block was closed off, no others (neighbors, passers-by were around) -- and his mother was out there -- why didn't they (or maybe they did) give her more chances to talk with him?

And why did the police themselves get so close that they could have been endangered?

Did they even TRY to escalate? Or did they just roll up, jump out, get too close themselves, with the "drop it!, drop it, drop it" ESCALATING actions we see so often.

I've been told police were about 5-6 feet from him. That's too close. Why'd they get that close?

They knew it was "only" a mentally ill person with a knife, why -- in that kind of situation -- can't they only shoot to injure/disarm? Were there other officers on the back side of the man and his mom to block any "escape?" IF he had tried to run, if the block was closed off -- where was he going to run to? Who else was he really going to put in IMMEDIATE danger?

I'm not saying in this case the shooting was "bad" enough for the officers to be disciplined. But I also do not believe THIS is the outcome that had to happen.

And as for more training, more training, more training. I'm sure many people on this board are not police NOR mental health professionals -- and we have enough sense to know how to TRY to DE-escalate a situation, and that DE-escalation is better than escalation. Not that DE-escalation always works. But surely we've seen enough situations where police apparently didn't even TRY it...and THEY are the ones who ESCALATED the situation and made it WORSE.

Should police have had Tasers? I suppose so. But we've seen cases where officers are too quick to use those also. Many are just to quick to use force -- PERIOD. Patience. Remember? What's the rush?

Also I've seen (I believe in Asia) that police will sometimes use a net or netting to contain a person's movements. Why don't our police have netting they can throw over the person, to tangle the person up?
I know those who are unreasonable would then complain -- "they captured him like an animal, threw a net on him, trapping like an animal." Oh please, shut up. You want him subdued and tangled in a net, or shot dead?
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Old 10-29-2020, 04:56 AM
 
2,723 posts, read 922,789 times
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One answer is to send more officers on every call, with more non-lethal options, but that costs MORE money, not less.

Tasers are effective, but their failure rate is high enough such that they cannot be trusted to work on an individual who is armed and aggressive. Mythbusters did a test that showed that even with an open gap of twenty feet, an assailant with a knife can cross that distance and deliver a fatal wound before the officer can draw his weapon and fire.

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet are beanbag shotguns, they can be deployed from a greater distance than a taser and are pretty effective. But again, you need to have the subject covered with lethal force at the same time in case it does not work, so it takes more manpower. You can't have it both ways.

The cops in the video went out of their way to back up before opening fire. I sure don't see the folks who are "protesting" buying police scanners and intervening before the police arrive, and getting themselves killed in the process. All of the bystanders present could have put themselves between Mr. Wallace and the police. Why didn't they? Because they didn't want to die, the same as the cops on scene.

Chokeholds should NOT be banned, they are a form of non-lethal force. Routinely performed in MMA, they cut off the blood flow to the brain and cause unconsciousness. The suspect can then be cuffed or otherwise hobbled. Eric Garner, I believe, had a heart attack, he was NOT killed by the chokehold. He was a BIG guy, I believe the cop that applied the choke had to jump up to get his arm around his neck. Joe Rogan has said that he believes all cops should earn purple belts in JuJitsu, but again, training for that takes time and money, so get ready to pay higher taxes.

I myself was taken back when I saw the video of the cop with his knee on George Floyd's neck for nine minutes. But instead of burning down stores, I waited for the facts to come out - Mr. Floyd ASKED the police to take him out of the squad and hold him on the ground, he was hallucinating from having ingested enough drugs (Fentanyl?) to kill a person two-and-a-half times, he was NOT killed from being "kneeled on", and the officers involved are going to be found not guilty.
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Old 10-29-2020, 05:49 AM
 
314 posts, read 292,187 times
Reputation: 472
At least the torrential rains overnight minimized the looting and violence.
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