Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Philadelphia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-29-2020, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Way up high
22,186 posts, read 29,164,497 times
Reputation: 31229

Advertisements

It was shown on the news that even his neighbors begged him to put the knife down. He did not.

It seems like he wasn't a productive member of society either way. Something tells me he would have met this fate at some point whether by a cop or another person.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-29-2020, 04:09 PM
 
13,811 posts, read 27,313,121 times
Reputation: 14244
Quote:
Originally Posted by himain View Post
It was shown on the news that even his neighbors begged him to put the knife down. He did not.

It seems like he wasn't a productive member of society either way. Something tells me he would have met this fate at some point whether by a cop or another person.
He had nine kids and one more on the way. He was 27.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2020, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
2,212 posts, read 1,416,202 times
Reputation: 3027
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
We have immigrants that come... [orphaned] no one seems to blame the guy with the knife with a history of assault running towards police with their guns drawn.
Please consider that stories about immigrant success do not reflect the opportunity of the greater economy. The economy relies on low wage workers to survive. Fruit pickers? Factory farm workers? Custodians? All low wage. You wouldn't have your basic quality of life without them. How about giving these people livable wages, for one. The term "blame," as if critiques or analyses about structures of inequality should be reduced to such a myopic term, is really an irrelevant word.

You should do some reading on generational trauma. It is going to take more than a "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" philosophy to undo what we've done to generationally disenfranchised communities.

This person did not have access to the mental health services he needed. His death is a culmination of many injustices. Of course he was in a scary place and he needed to be de-escalated. It's too bad more people aren't asking, "how could it have been prevented from getting to this point?"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2020, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
2,212 posts, read 1,416,202 times
Reputation: 3027
Quote:
Originally Posted by himain View Post
It was shown on the news that even his neighbors begged him to put the knife down. He did not.

It seems like he wasn't a productive member of society either way. Something tells me he would have met this fate at some point whether by a cop or another person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
He had nine kids and one more on the way. He was 27.
He was a human being. A son and father. That you'd talk about someone like that, regardless of whether or not you "agree" with their life events/choices, is really sad.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2020, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Way up high
22,186 posts, read 29,164,497 times
Reputation: 31229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir View Post
He was a human being. A son and father. That you'd talk about someone like that, regardless of whether or not you "agree" with their life events/choices, is really sad.
I am pointing out facts. You cannot argue with those
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2020, 05:46 PM
 
3,154 posts, read 2,032,391 times
Reputation: 9288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir View Post
He was a human being. A son and father. That you'd talk about someone like that, regardless of whether or not you "agree" with their life events/choices, is really sad.
The Late, Great Mike Royko did a column on this once, I'll do my best to invoke his meaning, if not his exact words:

"There are billions of people in this world. Some of which have horrible things happen to them - their kids get cancer; their homes and all their belongings get blown away in tornados or washed away in floods; they get crippled and can no longer work; they lose their parents at a young age; their hearts are broken in their youth, and they spend the rest of their lives alone. The list is endless.

Being a human, I only have so much compassion and sympathy in me to give to the people of the world, it is not a limitless supply. So, having cried for those whose lives have been disrupted or destroyed by things not of their own making - folks that have basically done the right things their whole lives, and still get knocked down by the fortunes and misfortunes of life on this earth, I'm depleted long before I get very far down the list. By the time I get to those who made the decision to get drunk, drive recklessly and crash their car into a tree; those to think it's a good idea to get high, hold up a liquor store and spend the next ten years in prison; those that decide it's a good idea to spend the rent money on cocaine instead of feeding their children; those that feel it's appropriate to beat their wives and then attack the arresting officers with a knife; I'm already stone cold out of compassion. It's not that those people are not human beings and do not deserve compassion and charity, it's just that I've already spent mine on those who are in predicaments largely not of their making - sorry."

And I apologize if I've got the words wrong, but it's from memory, I read Mr. Royko's sentiment many years ago and it stuck with me, and to be honest, it helped me make better decisions in my OWN life. And I have to agree with those posters who stated the person MOST responsible for Mr. Wallace's death were not the police officers who had the unfortunate duty to deal with him that evening, it was Mr. Wallace himself. May he rest in peace. But his death was on HIM, not the police.

Last edited by Curly Q. Bobalink; 10-29-2020 at 06:06 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2020, 05:59 PM
 
463 posts, read 202,620 times
Reputation: 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
We have immigrants that come to this country with nothing but the clothes on their back and within their first generation they own homes and are sending their kids to college. My wife's family is literally that story (they cleaned toilets when they arrived here, but came here legally).

Yet we also have citizens that have generational poverty throughout their time here (all races).

America has not been designed to be "fair", it has been designed to give every person an equal chance at success. For many, it seems to be executing on that premise well.

There will be some stuff moving forward that is of concern regarding automation. But blaming one's fate on generational poverty when people can come here with nothing yet succeed is laughable and doesn't acknowledge one's failures in life to make it their own. Which is really what this shooting and then looting was about - no one seems to blame the guy with the knife with a history of assault running towards police with their guns drawn.
I don't really agree that everybody has an equal chance at success. Immigrants coming into this country are aware they have to work hard and are really striving for a better life. They don't have the preloaded sense of entitlement or expectations that many of the poor in America have. There certainly are issues holding back American citizens, but very few people in this forum are not going to be really honest about the anger and disrespect that comes from entitlement. And let's be honest, systemic racism is all that's being talked about, but there is a lot of racism coming from poor in this country. You can see it in Philadelphia, with the looting, with so many angry people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2020, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Earth
7,646 posts, read 6,418,607 times
Reputation: 5828
Have all the mayor nutter gains been erased with the riots?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2020, 08:06 AM
 
Location: New York City
9,340 posts, read 9,202,430 times
Reputation: 6428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
Have all the mayor nutter gains been erased with the riots?
Certainly no. But between Covid and a second round of riots and looting (although not downtown this time), it certainly does not help growth, recovery or image... And it's sad communities have to deal with this every time there is an incident with the police.

I posted in the Philadelphia crime thread about this. I see faults on both sides, but I find the looting and violence unacceptable under any circumstances and I am tired of it. And the lame attempts from some to justify the looting is even more tired.

Issues I have with police handling...

1. Why fire 14 shots?
2. Call for backup and plan a tackle when they arrive?
3. Temporality retreat?
4. Give the mother more time to calm her son?
5. Fire a few shots then stop.

I do understand the situation was tense, the perp was running around out of his mind, bystanders, etc. And no matter how well trained the cop is, adrenaline kicks in and logic gets pushed out of the mind, therefore the result may not be good.

I would also like to add, it is very hard to shoot a moving target in the arm or leg, cops are trained to shoot at the mass (target), not shoot to kill or shoot an arm.
Some of the judgmental social media comments are ridiculous and unrealistic, also ridiculous that people think a mental health professional should have been sent in lieu of the police. What on Earth would they accomplish without some sort of law enforcement present? Real life does not work like a textbook, but very easy to judge behind a screen.

Issues I have with the rest of the situation...

1. Local politicians remaining silent or claiming murder / stoking the flames. The disgusting tweet from Brian Sims is an example of that. People can certainly be upset, and march/protest, but the moment it turns into what it turned into, local leaders need to shut it down, period.
2. People justifying the looting/rioting? Just no...
3. Destroying our own struggling communities and harming communities nowhere near where the incident occurred such as Port Richmond.

Everything in front of us is a two way street, but there is too much one sided thinking. Police reform needs to happen, but this cannot be the result every time there is a problem.

Former Commissioner Ramsey had a good interview on CNN with Wolfe Blitzer. He gave his view on the situation, a much more level headed approach. A shame the city cannot get him back or someone similar.

Last edited by cpomp; 10-30-2020 at 08:29 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2020, 09:08 AM
 
463 posts, read 202,620 times
Reputation: 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
Issues I have with police handling...

1. Why fire 14 shots?
2. Call for backup and plan a tackle when they arrive?
3. Temporality retreat?
4. Give the mother more time to calm her son?
5. Fire a few shots then stop.

I do understand the situation was tense, the perp was running around out of his mind, bystanders, etc. And no matter how well trained the cop is, adrenaline kicks in and logic gets pushed out of the mind, therefore the result may not be good.
Your post is well thought out and fair, but just a couple of things that play into the questions you ask.

1. The police are on the scene with an aggressive individual, armed with a knife and a history of violence. They cannot just leave the scene or give this person time to harm someone else. It is their duty to protect those who might come to harm. This means they cannot retreat, and are hard-pressed to wait for someone else to arrive or calm him down. If he jumps on someone else and starts to stab them, the police can no longer shoot him because they cannot take the risk of hitting someone else. They then have to wrestle a strong man with a knife and that could be deadly. That is beside the fact that they are under pressure to protect themselves as well. He looked as though he was starting to lunge in the video.

2. You mention the adrenaline, but anyone who has shot guns a lot in their life (I am one who grew up hunting) knows that pulling the trigger happens fast and you always shoot more than you intended. What seems like two trigger pulls ends up being seven. This is true in any case, and you can see that when there is a shooting every night in Philly (reports of 50 shots in less than 15 seconds).

The only way to have had a different outcome would have been to have provided services to this man before the situation arose. What's really a shame is that he has 9 children. 9 children.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Philadelphia

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top