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We currently live in South Florida and while it was a great place to raise our kids, it's way too hot most of the year to do anything outside, so we pretty much go to work, come home and watch TV in the evenings (not exactly how I want to spend the second half of my life).
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South Florida is like paradise November to April, not sure what specifically can keep folks home during this time, disability may be. Same time period you'll have cold dark winter in North East.
Not moving here full time until later 2021 but had an amazing time exploring Philadelphia with my partner on each of our visits! We stayed in Manayuck for 10 days and downtown for 6 before purchasing a rowhome in the former. Best things to do based on our interests and outdoor lifestyle:
-Check out the many museums the city has to offer: The collections changes out fairly regularly so even going to the Philadelphia Museum of Art twice felt like a new experience.
-City/Neighborhood walks: We stopped in Fishtown and Chestnut Hill during our time and had plenty to see, new food to try, and appreciate the unique vibe in both areas. We decided to buy in Manayuck because it had everything we were looking for in a neighborhood; nature, locally owned boutiques and cafes, warm community, easy access to the main line, and housing that was affordable for our budget. If you decided to move into the city, I can't recommend finding a neighborhood you feel at home in enough.
-Festivals and events: These have been on hold due to COVID-19 but when we visited during the summer of 2019 there was a ton of things going on! It was really easy to socialize with people out and about. I wouldn't worry about going alone if my partner didn't want to come to something because it wouldn't be hard to mingle, or meet new friends.
-Sporting events: We went to a Philadelphia Flyers game; neither of us are die hard sports fans. We got the tickets from a coworker by chance and decided it'd be a cool experience as neither of us had ever been to a hockey game. I enjoyed it more than I anticipated.
Also we were "roughing" it after we moved into our home to fix up as a rental; sleeping on an air mattress, completing projects, etc but didn't hear our neighbors the whole time. We actually went over there with a gift basket to apologize for any construction noise they might have experienced and they weren't bothered which was good.
Thank you Oh2Me for those suggestions and congrats on getting a place and being able to fix it up. It's encouraging to me that you didn't hear your neighbors. I have seen some really beautiful row houses and duplexes that I would love to consider one day. It would be an interesting thread to ask others to share about their experiences sharing walls with neighbors. I'm hoping my bad experience was more of an outlier.
Civis (post above yours) intimated a disability is what might be keeping us indoors from November to April. Quite the opposite, lol, my husband and I are both former athletes and still fit enough for outdoor activities and sports, but people tend to think Florida is more of a paradise than it really is. From January to March, it absolutely is heaven. And year round the sky is crystal blue, the palm trees and endless green lawns are gorgeous, and the Atlantic Ocean is the perfect temperature. But until you spend the majority of your year in stifling heat and humidity, you just can't quite imagine what it's like. We are (obviously) much closer to the equator and the sun is ridiculously intense. If you walk outside in dark jeans from April - November, your skin underneath starts to burn - no exaggeration. There are no seasons and all the holidays are brutal. Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas... you are in a tank top, indoors, with the AC on high. You still cook because it's a holiday, but that just makes the house even hotter. Try putting up Christmas lights in 90 degree weather - not fun nor festive. And aside from going to our own kids' sporting events over the years or going as a family to the movie theater, there's not much to do. Even when you go to a nice restaurant with outdoor seating, you sit and eat with sweat dripping down your back. I know the northeast can be cold for long periods of time, but we lived in Brooklyn for 5 years and it only bothered me in March and April when you're ready for it to warm up and you get a late snow storm and winter starts all over again. Other than that, I like having 4 seasons. I like having museums, parks, places to hike and explore, holiday events and farmer's markets that I can actually enjoy without wanting to go home because there's not enough shade to stand under. I like seeing people walking around and just enjoying the outside world. People don't walk anywhere in Florida. I used to live three short blocks away from where I worked - and I had to drive my car. I tried walking once and arrived to work dripping with sweat and my hair a frizzy mess.
I know no place is ideal, but it will soon be time for us to get out of the South. I appreciate everyone's responses.
Civis (post above yours) intimated a disability is what might be keeping us indoors from November to April. Quite the opposite, lol, my husband and I are both former athletes and still fit enough for outdoor activities and sports, but people tend to think Florida is more of a paradise than it really is. From January to March, it absolutely is heaven. And year round the sky is crystal blue, the palm trees and endless green lawns are gorgeous, and the Atlantic Ocean is the perfect temperature. But until you spend the majority of your year in stifling heat and humidity, you just can't quite imagine what it's like. We are (obviously) much closer to the equator and the sun is ridiculously intense. If you walk outside in dark jeans from April - November, your skin underneath starts to burn - no exaggeration. There are no seasons and all the holidays are brutal. Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas... you are in a tank top, indoors, with the AC on high. You still cook because it's a holiday, but that just makes the house even hotter. Try putting up Christmas lights in 90 degree weather - not fun nor festive. And aside from going to our own kids' sporting events over the years or going as a family to the movie theater, there's not much to do. Even when you go to a nice restaurant with outdoor seating, you sit and eat with sweat dripping down your back. I know the northeast can be cold for long periods of time, but we lived in Brooklyn for 5 years and it only bothered me in March and April when you're ready for it to warm up and you get a late snow storm and winter starts all over again. Other than that, I like having 4 seasons. I like having museums, parks, places to hike and explore, holiday events and farmer's markets that I can actually enjoy without wanting to go home because there's not enough shade to stand under. I like seeing people walking around and just enjoying the outside world. People don't walk anywhere in Florida. I used to live three short blocks away from where I worked - and I had to drive my car. I tried walking once and arrived to work dripping with sweat and my hair a frizzy mess.
I know no place is ideal, but it will soon be time for us to get out of the South. I appreciate everyone's responses.
My first and so far only sojourn into Florida was a trip to Miami in July 2008 to participate in the quadrenneal GALA Choruses festival. ("GALA Choruses": The Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses, which holds a huge festival featuring more than 200 LGBT community choruses from all over North America every four years. I was a singer in the Philadelphia Gay Men's Chorus at the time.)
I remember walking down Flagler Street downtown right around noon on a weekday. I think I may have been the only person on foot on the street at that time, and I soon understood why, for my walk took the form of: Walk about 100 feet or so, about three storefronts. Duck into a store to soak up some air conditioning. Walk another 100 feet or so. Duck into another store. Repeat several times. Walk into Macy's (by then no longer Burdine's) and cool off for an extended period. Then leave and repeat the sequence until you hit Biscayne Boulevard.
Like Washington, Miami sits on what had been a swamp, and it has the humidity to match. It's the only city I've visited yet where the weather forecasts did not talk about the percent chance of precipitation but the percent coverage; it was bound to rain somewhere in the area at some point during the day. (I got caught in one of those short showers walking the length of the Venetian Causeway from the hotel I was staying in to Miami Beach.)
I find the winterphobia many Americans exhibit puzzling, to say the least. Many years ago, I saw a bum wearing a T-shirt I vowed I would buy if I ever saw it on sale (I haven't yet seen it anywhere). It had a banner on it that read:
"Those who cannot handle winter don't deserve summer."
It appears that the people who have fled Florida in order to escape winter get their comeuppance in the form of brutally hot and humid summers (and winters too, judging from what you wrote).
You can always put on more layers. There are only so many you can take off.
A person doesn't have to leave the state to get more moderate weather. (Not that anyone said they did.)
Not ALL of Florida is unbearable. A person could just move north IN Florida. Jacksonville, St. Augustine, even Orlando is not as oppressive as Miami. And Key West as ocean breeze.
Of course for personal reasons those places may not suit a person's wants or needs.
OP, I think where you choose could just depend on how close you want to be to Philly, or if you want to be IN Philly. There are some nice neighborhoods IN Philly that are not down town (in "Center City.")
-- What are the absolute NON-negotiables?...versus preferences that you might be willing to let go of depending on how high or low they are on the priority list.
-- Do you really literally want to WALK to your activities...and what are they most likely activities you'll do most often?
-- You might like to hike but if you do that once a month...versus eating out 3 times a week, which would you rather drive to than walk to.
Also having things at your door to do on a weeknight might not be offered in the same place that has more to offer, but you have to drive a short distance to get there.
And there's the near family factor.
Our "non-negotiables" are tied to things we already have and don't want to give up: two dogs and two cars. If we had to give up one car because we chose a condo or apartment closer to the city and could get by w/ 1 car, we would do that - but I imagine most condos/apartments like that wouldn't allow two dogs (one of which is a German Shepherd). I think ultimately we will need to buy an actual house, although we are pretty open as to the type and size of house we get. I'd love to be able to walk to a few restaurants/bars, then be able to drive to parks/ hiking trails - but again, with two dogs, I'm guessing that puts us farther away from walkable areas... yes? no? We are going back up there in the summer to look more closely at certain neighborhoods. My husband is the one who is originally from Brooklyn, born and raised in Park Slope, and loves that type of lifestyle, but the property taxes in NY/NJ are just too high. We've loved Philly every time we've visited so I'm confident we'll eventually find that sort of "sweet spot": a place with some space for the dogs, walkability or short drive to restaurants/stores, possessing neighborhood charm and a good energy. Really we would be just as happy on a tree-lined street outside the city, having to drive here and there for amenities/activities, as we would be living in a smaller condo or attached house closer to the city (as long as it has some sort of backyard space for our dogs).
All your responses have been really helpful. I am so appreciative.
And MarketStEl, you're story about the search for cool air while in Miami IS MY LIFE and it made me laugh! :-)
We are a mixed race family and moved down here to South Florida so our brown children would be surrounded by lots of other brown children. Racism exists everywhere, but most So-Fla kids don't really experience it on a grand scale because right where we live is probably one of the most diverse and racially integrated places in the country outside of NYC. Except for a rare instance here and there, neither of our kids have ever really felt like a minority nor felt like they didn't belong to one group or the other. And they both play sports year-round, so for 18 years, this has been a great place to raise our kids. They have also gotten free undergraduate college tuition because of "Bright Futures" - an amazing merit-based Florida scholarship (my son currently has it and my daughter will get it when she graduates high school). For them, we endured the year-round heat and humidity. But we are looking forward to a new change of venue and getting back to being within driving distance of extended family. To boot, neither of my kids want to stay in Florida after college, so this move will be beneficial for us in a lot of ways.
Our "non-negotiables" are tied to things we already have and don't want to give up: two dogs and two cars. If we had to give up one car because we chose a condo or apartment closer to the city and could get by w/ 1 car, we would do that - but I imagine most condos/apartments like that wouldn't allow two dogs (one of which is a German Shepherd). I think ultimately we will need to buy an actual house, although we are pretty open as to the type and size of house we get. I'd love to be able to walk to a few restaurants/bars, then be able to drive to parks/ hiking trails - but again, with two dogs, I'm guessing that puts us farther away from walkable areas... yes? no? We are going back up there in the summer to look more closely at certain neighborhoods. My husband is the one who is originally from Brooklyn, born and raised in Park Slope, and loves that type of lifestyle, but the property taxes in NY/NJ are just too high. We've loved Philly every time we've visited so I'm confident we'll eventually find that sort of "sweet spot": a place with some space for the dogs, walkability or short drive to restaurants/stores, possessing neighborhood charm and a good energy. Really we would be just as happy on a tree-lined street outside the city, having to drive here and there for amenities/activities, as we would be living in a smaller condo or attached house closer to the city (as long as it has some sort of backyard space for our dogs).
(rest snipped)
Glad I could give you a decent laugh. Miami Beach, needless to say, was more pleasant to walk around, thanks to it being a barrier island. And I would like to visit Key West someday, not to mention an old friend who now lives in the Tampa Bay area, where his family moved from Philadelphia some years back.
But I wanted to address your concerns about living with your two dogs and two cars.
I'm a big advocate of car-free living — I haven't owned a car since I was in college, and I manage to get around Philadelphia and environs quite well thanks to our area's extensive mass transit system. (I did use the downtown Miami people mover and rode Tri-Rail and Metrorail in from the airport to my hotel on my visit.) One of this area's great strengths, IMO, is that it has a slew of very nice walkable neighborhoods outside the confines of Center City, both in the city and in its suburbs. Most of these grew up around railroad stations, which means you get convenient connections should you want to venture into the city, and most of these have enough amenities and services at hand for you to ditch one of your cars. Some of them are well-equipped enough that you could even ditch both of them if you so chose.
In the suburbs, the communities of this type that you should check out include Ardmore, Bryn Mawr and Wayne on the storied Main Line; Jenkintown and Glenside in the northern 'burbs; Swarthmore, the Delaware County town that grew up around the famed Quaker small liberal-arts college; the county seats of Chester and Bucks counties, West Chester and Doylestown; and above all Media, the Delaware County seat, whose 60 restaurants on and around its main drag, State Street, make it the dining destination of Delco. Some in-city neighborhoods you might also want to look at include University City and Cedar Park in West Philadelphia and Chestnut Hill and Mount Airy in Northwest Philadelphia. The last of these neighborhoods has a reputation for racial integration stretching back to the 1950s, when local residents and real estate agents decided they would take a stand against blockbusting, panic selling and white flight. It's 65/35 Black/white today, but still works hard to maintain its deserved reputation.
Most of the condominium properties I've featured on the Phillymag Real Estate & Home channel do not have pet restrictions, and some of them are of the townhouse variety, which means you could probably find one with green space attached. Most pet-friendly rental properties in this area (and there are lots of them) allow you to keep up to two dogs in your apartment or house, though several have breed and size restrictions that may trip up your German shepherd. Look for complexes whose amenities include dog parks or dog runs if you want to rent, though many pet-friendly developments also lack these. If you decide to live in Media Borough itself, there's a good chance you will be a renter; 55 percent of its residents do so, well above county, state and national averages. The borough's biggest landlord, Media Real Estate, is a family-owned company that's been in business since 1928 and gets very good marks for property management from tenants; I'm sure their portfolio includes pet-friendly properties with green space available.
As MarketSt points out there are several areas that fit your criteria. That's why I was asking about absolute non-negotiables -- thinking that those might narrow the list. But you still have plenty of places to choose from. Guess it just goes to show how much the Philly area has to offer.
You're going to be empty-nesters. But will you be retired, or still working? I only mention that because of the city wage tax. People here know the mantra: "If you don't work in the city, don't live in the city." Because you can live very close to the city, just across the county line -- and get the many of the same benefits of city living, and not have to pay the city wage tax.... which you'll pay if you work OR live in the city.
Some suburbanites very, very, very rarely come into the city (for things/place activities that you really can only get in the city: Art and Barnes Museums, specific restaurants, location specific events, etc. There's so much do do in the suburbs, they don't feel the need to venture in too often. Others come come in all the time.
MarketStEl and selhars, your responses are really helpful. I have been discussing your advice with my husband. We are career teachers and are exploring one of two options (which is why your detailed and varied options have been so helpful): we are going to try and get teaching jobs in either the city or the suburbs. I know it's really hard to land a teaching job in PA, so we are being realistic. We've both taught in inner city schools so we are open to a job in Philly itself, so I guess it depends on what the teaching job market is like over the next year or so. Our second option is to sell the house we currently live in and downsize to two small residences, one down here (to finish out our teaching careers) and one up in Philly (so we can spend our summers and holidays up there). Then when we retire, live in Philly full-time. It all depends on job availability of course. But another one of our non-negotiables is: we are not staying in Florida full-time for the rest of our lives! That's for damn certain. It was 85 degrees today and tomorrow will have a feels-like temperature of near 90 degrees. In January.
For the last 18 years we have been really busy and pre-occupied with raising kids, but with one out of the house and the other one gone after next year, we are realizing how much time we will have to do the things we want to do - and realizing we don't want to spend that time being miserable in the heat and humidity. We are paying for the maintenance of a beautiful pool that none of us really uses anymore. And the liability of home damage due to possible hurricanes is not what we want to spend our life savings on as we get closer to having a fixed retirement income. Two years ago we were at a friend's house in East Stroudsburg. It was July - and I was sitting in a comfy chair on the screened-in porch as the sun set, and you know what happened next... the fire-flies came out. I couldn't believe I was sitting outside comfortably on a July evening watching fire-flies. Without suffocating and sweating to death. I knew on that day I wanted to retire in Pennsylvania. I know it sounds silly, but that evening brought me a lot of clarity. I guess these are the things you think about when you move into the second half of your life. :-)
As I write in the story, I got the idea for it when two white, female fellow parishoners at First Presbyterian Church in Germantown* double-teamed me at the coffee hour one Sunday after services to tell me about the great education their kids were getting at the mostly-Black, mostly-low-income neighborhood public school located at Germantown's northwest corner.
You can read the views of one of those two in the story. All of them, in one way or another, point out that children from affluent white families will probably get a good education no matter what school they enroll in, for research has shown that performance on standardized tests correlates more with family socioeconomic status than with any other single factor. Moreover, many of the worries such parents express about these mostly-non-white, mostly-non-affluent schools are overblown.
I acknowledge that the article has a "do as I say, not as I do" quality to it because my own Mom had me transferred out of district to a smaller, less crowded public grade school on the other side of Kansas City, then enrolled me in a private school starting in seventh grade, as a kid. But I think she had some very good reasons for doing so, reasons white parents don't need to worry about. On the other hand, their kids would learn lessons they can't get at a school where all the other students look like theirs if they live in the city and send their kids to their local public school.
*FPCG is that rarity among American Protestant churches: it has a racially integrated congregation, something only 0.1 percent of all US Protestant churches have. Its associate pastor and I have been friends since I peer-mentored his freshman-year roommate in college. Like me, he's Black too; unlike me, he's a native, having been born and raised in (yup) Mount Airy.
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