SEPTA Train Idea (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, York: middle school, subsidized, lawsuits)

[MrBrightside11]

Hi, I am a teacher from western Pennsylvania, and I am in charge of a group of middle school students that are working on an idea of having possible exercise equipment on a railcar to make the ride into / out of Philly more productive for passengers that are traveling awhile. We also pitched this idea to NJ Transit for people traveling in and out of New York city. Unlike NJ Transit, I don't think SEPTA uses a bi-level rail car. Their idea is having the top level of a car be like a mini-exercise area with bikes and ellipticals, and the bottom level be still accessible for all passengers just passing through.

They would appreciate it if you would checkout their idea and feel free to leave comments / suggestions.

Their work is visible here:
https://docs.google.com/presentation...e&delayms=3000


They have an opinion form on their idea here:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...rm?usp=sf_link


Thank you for your time!

[rowhomecity]

Fun idea.

But in terms of efficiency this is a no go.

If you actually have ridden commuter rail you would understand it is very busy, with many people on board.

The economies of scale are already not in the commuters favor in terms of fare charges.

A membership at Planet Fitness combined with a podcast while on your commute. Are far more effective.

So no, this is not a good idea. If anything, explaining to your students how highways are over subsidized. Would be more substantial, than this survey.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by MrBrightside11

Hi, I am a teacher from western Pennsylvania, and I am in charge of a group of middle school students that are working on an idea of having possible exercise equipment on a railcar to make the ride into / out of Philly more productive for passengers that are traveling awhile. We also pitched this idea to NJ Transit for people traveling in and out of New York city. Unlike NJ Transit, I don't think SEPTA uses a bi-level rail car. Their idea is having the top level of a car be like a mini-exercise area with bikes and ellipticals, and the bottom level be still accessible for all passengers just passing through.

They would appreciate it if you would checkout their idea and feel free to leave comments / suggestions.

Their work is visible here:
https://docs.google.com/presentation...e&delayms=3000


They have an opinion form on their idea here:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...rm?usp=sf_link


Thank you for your time!

Both of those links are no longer functioning. What happened?

It does sound kinda fun, but I don't think that the upper level of a bi-level passenger rail car is the ideal place to put gym equipment. The ceiling heights on bi-level railcars are on the low side as it is. And it could get pretty close inside if you had a lot of people working out. You'd want to put changing facilities somewhere too.

BTW, SEPTA's next order of passenger coaches will be unpowered bi-levels.

[selhars]

The links didn't work for me either, so I haven't read or seen the idea (other than the OP's initial pitch).

I wouldn't suggest -- well it's just an assignment exercise so I suppose it's a learning tool -- but if I were a rail or any public transportation company, I wouldn't be interested in any thing that's puts more equipment on the vehicle that a person could use, or trip over, or fall off -- and sue the company.

Dishonest people are just looking for the opportunity to sue and get a settlement. In Philly we've had cases of lowlifes just hearing about a bus accident and suing, saying there were there, when they weren't even on the bus.

Please compliment them on the idea. And it could work in theory.
But all some people want to do these days is sue someone or some company -- so no to implementing the idea.

[MrBrightside11]

Thank you for the feedback on their idea. Sorry the links did not work. I think I updated them:

Their slideshow:
https://docs.google.com/presentation...&delayms=10000

Their feedback form:
https://forms.gle/ezxr2DFDuVvZRHoa8


I think the concerns about the lawsuits are valid. However, their plan is to have a level of a car that is devoted to the equipment were it wouldn't interfere with passengers. I think passengers should probably have to commit to signing a waiver somehow before using the gym, and maybe only be allowed to access it once they did that.
Enforcing the waiver requirement would be hard however and may be impractical.

I will pass the message and thoughts onto them.

[MrBrightside11]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Both of those links are no longer functioning. What happened?

It does sound kinda fun, but I don't think that the upper level of a bi-level passenger rail car is the ideal place to put gym equipment. The ceiling heights on bi-level railcars are on the low side as it is. And it could get pretty close inside if you had a lot of people working out. You'd want to put changing facilities somewhere too.

BTW, SEPTA's next order of passenger coaches will be unpowered bi-levels.

Thank you for the reply. Sorry the links did not work. I'm not sure why they stopped working. Concerns on ceiling height are definitely a valid thought. They figured (maybe incorrectly) if the ceilings are tall enough to stand then they could put equipment. However, if the ceilings do slope towards the end, then it may be too short to sit on an exercise bike or stand on an elliptical.

The links are:
Their slideshow:
https://docs.google.com/presentation...&delayms=10000

Their feedback form:
https://forms.gle/ezxr2DFDuVvZRHoa8

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by MrBrightside11

Thank you for the reply. Sorry the links did not work. I'm not sure why they stopped working. Concerns on ceiling height are definitely a valid thought. They figured (maybe incorrectly) if the ceilings are tall enough to stand then they could put equipment. However, if the ceilings do slope towards the end, then it may be too short to sit on an exercise bike or stand on an elliptical.

The links are:
Their slideshow:
https://docs.google.com/presentation...&delayms=10000

Their feedback form:
https://forms.gle/ezxr2DFDuVvZRHoa8

My feedback notwithstanding, your kids did a good job with the research and presentation.

When I got to where they discussed the "alternative solution," however, I had this picture pop into my head of a train car full of riders working out on Cubiis that slid out from under the seat in front of them. (This portable elliptical advertises heavily on TV.)

The kids found a more cost-effective model. Good for them!

And frankly, I think that alternative is very doable, assuming there's enough under-seat clearance to stick one of these mini-ellipticals beneath the seat ahead of the passenger.

If that's possible, you could fill a car with these. (The transit agency could also charge a premium fare for riding in the elliptical-equipped car.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by MrBrightside11

Hi, I am a teacher from western Pennsylvania, and I am in charge of a group of middle school students that are working on an idea of having possible exercise equipment on a railcar to make the ride into / out of Philly more productive for passengers that are traveling awhile. We also pitched this idea to NJ Transit for people traveling in and out of New York city. Unlike NJ Transit, I don't think SEPTA uses a bi-level rail car. Their idea is having the top level of a car be like a mini-exercise area with bikes and ellipticals, and the bottom level be still accessible for all passengers just passing through.

They would appreciate it if you would checkout their idea and feel free to leave comments / suggestions.

Their work is visible here:
https://docs.google.com/presentation...e&delayms=3000


They have an opinion form on their idea here:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...rm?usp=sf_link


Thank you for your time!

I think that it's kind of an odd idea. Have you used a commuter train or do the students have parents who do? Did you have any focus on Pittsburgh?

I used the subway/surface line that runs into Philadelphia from South Jersey at different time periods for many years. Most people use the time to prep for work. It's not run by SEPTA or NJT, nor is any part of the ride 45 minutes, so inappropriate for the concept.

In my opinion, the only rail line that would be appropriate for this would be to have one car on Amtrak, where you would have people going between metropolitan areas. Even at that, it would seem that it wouldn't be popular enough to have a car on every train, given that people are usually doing prep for work.

[selhars]

^^ For work commuters, who's going to workout (and maybe get sweaty) on the way to work? In a suit, or in their work clothes? On the way home....maybe? As Southbound says work computers are using that time for work prep, or for pleasure-reading, OR getting some more sleep.

Even on Amtrak it would have to be a long enough ride to make it worth a rider's time to change. And their still remains the personal hygiene issue.

And of course the liability issue. Waiver issue aside, I still don't think it's worth the liability exposure.
I'm not saying NO riders would use it. I just don't see the idea as viable.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

I think that it's kind of an odd idea. Have you used a commuter train or do the students have parents who do? Did you have any focus on Pittsburgh?

I used the subway/surface line that runs into Philadelphia from South Jersey at different time periods for many years. Most people use the time to prep for work. It's not run by SEPTA or NJT, nor is any part of the ride 45 minutes, so inappropriate for the concept.

In my opinion, the only rail line that would be appropriate for this would be to have one car on Amtrak, where you would have people going between metropolitan areas. Even at that, it would seem that it wouldn't be popular enough to have a car on every train, given that people are usually doing prep for work.

FWIW, SEPTA does operate some Regional Rail lines whose trains take more than 45 minutes to reach Center City from their ends.

Wilmington, DE, is 55 minutes from Center City on RRD, and that train continues on to Newark, another 10 minutes.

Doylestown is close to 90 minutes away. West Trenton is an hour, and Trenton just over 45 minutes. Thorndale is an hour, Paoli 50 minutes.

So you could get in a 30-minute workout and change if you rode into Center City from some of the end destinations on SEPTA. But I suspect the compact mini-ellipticals under seats would still work better.