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Old 06-06-2008, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
4,910 posts, read 12,771,485 times
Reputation: 2635

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoorestownResident View Post
I can show you a modest house in Cherry Hill with prohibitive property taxes, you can't show me one in PA. I'm sure the Main Line shrills think exactly as you do but in reality everyone else believes that PA is an affordable place to relocate to with low property taxes - Philly burbs, Lehigh Valley, Lancaster, even Bucks County. That's a fact. The folks on the Main Line snub the rest of the world, I just didn't realize that how deeply rooted and ignorant it was. Those little affluent towns are nice retreats from otherwise drab and tired blue collar surroundings. Congrats.
New Jerseys taxes are high for two reasons.

1. Your state government needs $3 B a year to support your out of control state pension.

2. Property taxes in New Jersey make up 50% of the tax burden.
Property taxes make up 25% of Pa. tax burden.
Nj gets gouged once pa gets gouged several times over for the same living space.

Get over the idea that taxes in South Jersey are so high becasue everybody wants to live there. I feel bad for you that you actually believe that and thats not to say South jersey is a bad place to live, but you need to snap out of it.

50% of the metro population live in the Pa burbs and the housing values are about 35%-40% higher overall.
25% of the metro population lives in South Jersey and housing values are about 35%-40% lesser value.
Game over.

You are hopelessly misguided if you think the pa. suburbs is The Mainline surrounded by blue collar towns. You couldnt be more incorrect. Its stupifying how someone with access to a computer can be so uneducated.

If you dropped Moorestown 5 miles north or west of the city limits of Philadlephia it would get completely lost. Just another town.

Last edited by rainrock; 06-06-2008 at 09:04 AM..

 
Old 06-06-2008, 10:49 AM
 
1,983 posts, read 6,843,384 times
Reputation: 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainrock View Post
New Jerseys taxes are high for two reasons.

1. Your state government needs $3 B a year to support your out of control state pension.

2. Property taxes in New Jersey make up 50% of the tax burden.
Property taxes make up 25% of Pa. tax burden.
Nj gets gouged once pa gets gouged several times over for the same living space.

Get over the idea that taxes in South Jersey are so high becasue everybody wants to live there. I feel bad for you that you actually believe that and thats not to say South jersey is a bad place to live, but you need to snap out of it.

50% of the metro population live in the Pa burbs and the housing values are about 35%-40% higher overall.
25% of the metro population lives in South Jersey and housing values are about 35%-40% lesser value.
Game over.

You are hopelessly misguided if you think the pa. suburbs is The Mainline surrounded by blue collar towns. You couldnt be more incorrect. Its stupifying how someone with access to a computer can be so uneducated.

If you dropped Moorestown 5 miles north or west of the city limits of Philadlephia it would get completely lost. Just another town.
Right dude. Unfortunately for you everyone else knows the deal. So taxes are higher in PA ad the #1 town in America is just another town in PA.

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA!
 
Old 06-06-2008, 11:14 AM
 
1,983 posts, read 6,843,384 times
Reputation: 411
Suggest you read this article pal to see how the rest of the country views the Philly burbs, just as I said, some nice towns surrounded by tired blue collar.

Surprising suburbs, crucial to both sides, appear evenly split
 
Old 06-06-2008, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
4,910 posts, read 12,771,485 times
Reputation: 2635
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoorestownResident View Post
Right dude. Unfortunately for you everyone else knows the deal. So taxes are higher in PA ad the #1 town in America is just another town in PA.

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA!
That was a fluff piece from 2002. They put 200 names in a hat and out came Moorestown. Come on now, let it go man.

Moorestown has a great little mainstreet area but it would be just another town in the Pa burbs on the economic scale.

Moderator cut: linking to competitors sites is not allowed

Moorestown (zip 08057), NJ Income and Salaries
The income per capita is $48,200, which includes all adults and children. The median household income is $87,659.


Pa. burbs from Lower merion west southwest.I'm not even going to get into the Valley Forge, Blue Bell, Gwynedd Valley,Bucks County areas. Population in parenthesis.

The towns below are pretty much connected there are probably 20 or 30 others mixed in that I forgot. The area west nw+sw of Lower Merion is like Moorestown x 40. Hardly blue collar.

Median Household Income

Moorestown $87,659(19,000)


Pa Burbs(Eastern Chester,Delaware,SW Montgomery Counties)

Lower Merion- $94,000 (60,000)
Galdwyne-$193,000(5,000)
Villanova-$154,153(9,000)
Radnor-$83,506(31,000)
Tredyffrin-$$90,134(29,000)
Easttown-$103,486(10,000)
Westtown-$100,114(11,000)
West Whiteland-$87,522(18,000)
Willistown-$85,180(11,000)
West Goshen-$85,207(23,000)
Edgmont-$102,827(5,000)
Chadds Ford-$94,201(5,000)
Birmingham Township-$145,319(5,000)
Pocopson-$113,000(4000)
Thornbury-$101,000(11,000)
Pennsbury Township-$97,533(5000)
East Brandywine-$87,000(6,500)
Chester Springs-$95,430(19,000)
Concord Township-$100,539(15,000)
Bethel Township-$104,814(10,000)
Rose Valley-$128,169(2,000)
Swarthmore-$92,491(7,000)

Last edited by Yac; 06-10-2008 at 04:14 AM..
 
Old 06-07-2008, 06:40 AM
 
1,983 posts, read 6,843,384 times
Reputation: 411
Rocker give it up. There's no reason to prolong this. Moorestown is probably the most desirable address and best known in NJ/PA Philly metro and arguably one of the most prestigious addressess in the country based on Money's accolades and others including one of the highest regarded private schools in the region if not the country. Moorestown is easily commutable to NYC, Princeton, Philly, it is simply the best location in the metro area. Real estate is about location first. In addition, the largest estate in the country is in Moorestown worth in excess of $100 million and I'll bet if you look at aggregate wealth there is more money in Moorestown that 3-4 towns on the Main Line combined. Moorestown has affordable housing, condos and several large 55+ plus communities that bring down the $150K average household income average. Retirees have little annual income even if they have a couple million in assets.

The bottom line is you're getting more house in PA with less property tax. Maybe one day that dynamic will change but it seems unlikely when NJ is the richest state in the country and the money continues to move west and south away from NYC and congested northern NJ.

I applaud your staunch defense of PA burbs, I actually am fine with people looking under the surface and drawing conclusions. I enjoy my drives over to the Main Line, some areas of Bucks County and the horse country of Chester County.

However, there is no getting around that modest 4 bedroom homes in Evesham, Voorhees, Haddonfield, Medford, Moorestown, Cherry Hill and probably even Mount Laurel are more expensive than PA burbs including property taxes. Even lesser towns in Camden County like Haddon Twp, Collingswood, Haddon Heights property taxes have skyrocketed to the point that much of PA cannot compare.

Even if some of the small Main Line towns are more expensive on a price level it is only because the towns are small, there are no condos bringing down the average, or affordable housing that is mandated in NJ. That's not a fair comparison.

What is fair is affordability of 4 bedroom family homes with property taxes included. The composition of housing in NJ is different by statute. Even much of central and northern are no longer night and day to the towns above. Deeper south jersey is still relatively affordable but that's about it. Location to Princeton, NYC, the shore, and dense population increases land value along with the growth of white collar jobs and corporate centers.

PA is always going to be NJ's little brother and there will always be a high concentration of blue collar households in PA versus the NJ because of the composition of heavy industry, textiles, manufacturing, etc. I suggest you consider relocating to NJ, Moorestown, Haddonfield or Princeton to get over your inferiority complex. Because nobody would go the lengths to try to prove something that is completely not true and statistical smoke and mirrors. You are good with facts and bad with analysis.

Last edited by MoorestownResident; 06-07-2008 at 07:07 AM..
 
Old 06-07-2008, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
4,910 posts, read 12,771,485 times
Reputation: 2635
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoorestownResident View Post
Rocker give it up. There's no reason to prolong this. Moorestown is probably the most desirable address and best known in NJ/PA Philly metro and arguably one of the most prestigious addressess in the country based on Money's accolades and others including one of the highest regarded private schools in the region if not the country. Moorestown is easily commutable to NYC, Princeton, Philly, it is simply the best location in the metro area. Real estate is about location first. In addition, the largest estate in the country is in Moorestown worth in excess of $100 million and I'll bet if you look at aggregate wealth there is more money in Moorestown that 3-4 towns on the Main Line combined. Moorestown has affordable housing, condos and several large 55+ plus communities that bring down the $150K average household income average. Retirees have little annual income even if they have a couple million in assets.

The bottom line is you're getting more house in PA with less property tax. Maybe one day that dynamic will change but it seems unlikely when NJ is the richest state in the country and the money continues to move west and south away from NYC and congested northern NJ.

I applaud your staunch defense of PA burbs, I actually am fine with people looking under the surface and drawing conclusions. I enjoy my drives over to the Main Line, some areas of Bucks County and the horse country of Chester County.

However, there is no getting around that modest 4 bedroom homes in Evesham, Voorhees, Haddonfield, Medford, Moorestown, Cherry Hill and probably even Mount Laurel are more expensive than PA burbs including property taxes. Even lesser towns in Camden County like Haddon Twp, Collingswood, Haddon Heights property taxes have skyrocketed to the point that much of PA cannot compare.

Even if some of the small Main Line towns are more expensive on a price level it is only because the towns are small, there are no condos bringing down the average, or affordable housing that is mandated in NJ. That's not a fair comparison.

What is fair is affordability of 4 bedroom family homes with property taxes included. The composition of housing in NJ is different by statute. Even much of central and northern are no longer night and day to the towns above. Deeper south jersey is still relatively affordable but that's about it. Location to Princeton, NYC, the shore, and dense population increases land value along with the growth of white collar jobs and corporate centers.

PA is always going to be NJ's little brother and there will always be a high concentration of blue collar households in PA versus the NJ because of the composition of heavy industry, textiles, manufacturing, etc. I suggest you consider relocating to NJ, Moorestown, Haddonfield or Princeton to get over your inferiority complex. Because nobody would go the lengths to try to prove something that is completely not true and statistical smoke and mirrors. You are good with facts and bad with analysis.


There doesnt appear to be a a single shred of truth in that whole rambling post. I'll give you $500 bucks if you can provide a reputable link that the undisputed largest estate in the USA is in Moorestown.

And I especially like this little jewel :" deeper South Jersey is still somewhat affordable." The flat sand based cucumber farms are becoming all the rage are they?

Do a search for the housing developments over the past 10 years.

Bucks,Chester counties start at $600k
Montgomery,Delaware $500
Burlington $400k
Glouceser,Camden $200-300K

Last edited by rainrock; 06-07-2008 at 10:04 AM..
 
Old 06-07-2008, 09:37 AM
 
3,219 posts, read 5,886,131 times
Reputation: 1839
This thread has become like that beer commercial that once aired - "Great Taste" vs. "Less Filling".
 
Old 06-07-2008, 05:24 PM
 
1,983 posts, read 6,843,384 times
Reputation: 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainrock View Post


There doesnt appear to be a a single shred of truth in that whole rambling post. I'll give you $500 bucks if you can provide a reputable link that the undisputed largest estate in the USA is in Moorestown.

And I especially like this little jewel :" deeper South Jersey is still somewhat affordable." The flat sand based cucumber farms are becoming all the rage are they?

Do a search for the housing developments over the past 10 years.

Bucks,Chester counties start at $600k
Montgomery,Delaware $500
Burlington $400k
Glouceser,Camden $200-300K
This just isn't an argument. I didn't realize the disparity is as much as it is. PA is much more affordable if these are realistic property taxes for these properties in these towns. I actually thought it was closer. $8,000 in property tax is a 3/4 bedroom bungalow or 1,800-2,500 square foot house in many of the more desirable towns in SJ.

For example here's an average 20 year old house in Southampton, NJ, farm country, decent school, not overly desirable, property tax $9,000:

Prudential Fox and Roach - Home Search / Property Profile (http://www.prufoxroach.com/search/search_results_profile.cfm?propID=bafc8c2a-61d0-4e10-a2fd-cf9aded7f7d1&propNo=2&sortby=1&pagestart=1&startro w=1 - broken link)

Villanova, $690,000, 4,600 square feet, $8,200 property tax, new construction.

Villanova, Pennsylvania Homes, Villanova, PA Real Estate, For Sale By Owner Homes, ForSaleByOwner Real Estate, and FSBO Property Sold By Owners at FSBO Buyer's Guide

Gladwyne, $950K, 6 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, 1 acre lot, property tax $10,100.

View Property Details- 1633 Briar Hill Rd, Gladwyne , PA 19035-1204

It isn't even close.

Vernon Hill's estate, former CEO of Commerce Bank, is among the largest in the country, 46,000 square feet on 43 acres. It is larger than Bill Gates estate (previously identified as one of the largest in US) and almost as large as the White House (roughly 55,000 square feet). It is the largest private residence in NJ.

Commerce's Hill may get $11 million | Philadelphia Inquirer, The | Find Articles at BNET.com

Wonderful Town - njmonthly.com (njmonthly.com)

"A key part of Moorestown’s appeal lies in its location—and you know what they say about location. Moorestown is 90 minutes by train to New York City and Washington, D.C.; it’s 35 miles south of Princeton and a 15-minute drive to Philadelphia. Routes 41 and 38 slice through town, and routes 73 and 295 as well as the Turnpike pass nearby. For most of South Jersey, it’s a shopping destination; Moorestown has a mall, strip malls, and a cluster of big-box stores.

Good schools led Paula Marantz Cohen to choose Moorestown when she moved from New York City twenty years ago with her husband and two children. Her daughter is a junior at Moorestown High, and her son, class of 2003, now attends Yale. “It has a good school system, and it has a lot of activities for kids,” says Cohen, a professor of English at Drexel University in Philadelphia. “We chose our house because we can walk to Main Street, and this has been wonderful for the kids.”

Finally, you cannot buy 4 bedroom new construction in BC for $400K or $200K-$300K in Camden County. Sorry, maybe 10 years ago but those numbers are irrelevant and long gone. Here's a sample of current pre-construction pricing in Gloucester County:

Welcome to Bruce Paparone, Inc.

Current new construction in Mount Laurel: $500K-$995K. Average is around $700K.

Homes.com - Real Estate and Homes For Sale.


As for Moorestown, new construction starts in the mid $700Ks for what is left in developments and there are spot built homes on busy roads for around $1 million. There are stick builders still doing spec homes in undesirable areas of town. You can grab one of these garbage homes as low as mid $600s. Including a high end builder I know of, I would say average is currently $950K for new construction in town with almost all in bad locations.

New Homes in Moorestown for Sale

This discussion is over. Enjoyed it, but I've made my points with plenty of supporting evidence.

Last edited by MoorestownResident; 06-07-2008 at 06:29 PM..
 
Old 06-07-2008, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
4,910 posts, read 12,771,485 times
Reputation: 2635
^^^^Wow! This one takes the cake.^^^^

A 50 yr old 3300 ft. sq. house in Gladwyne Pa. is aking $950k.

A 19 year old 3200 sq.ft.house in Moorestown NJ is asking $549k.

How are you trying to spin that ^^ as getting much more house for your money in Pa. than NJ ? Admittedly Property taxes in Nj are a little higher than Pa,mainly because of NJ government abuse, but the little extra tax value you might get in Pa. kind of gets offset just a bit by the extra $401,000 in asking price dont you think?

Last edited by rainrock; 06-07-2008 at 06:56 PM..
 
Old 06-07-2008, 06:55 PM
 
1,983 posts, read 6,843,384 times
Reputation: 411
That house is in Southampton, chief. Hope you learned something today.
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