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View Poll Results: Do you support the proposal for tolls on Route 422 to fund rail expansion/road repair?
I support the proposal 5 41.67%
I do not support the proposal 7 58.33%
Don't know/Indifferent 0 0%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-03-2009, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,745 posts, read 7,845,060 times
Reputation: 4700

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I can only imagine that this topic may create some spirited debate, but I thought it would be interesting to post on this forum for some discussion. As I'm sure many have read, there is some debate among local planning commissioners over implementing tolls to re-establish rail service from Philadelphia to Reading in lieu of government funding. The toll revenue would also be put toward maintenance of the highway. What is your take on this issue?
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Old 03-04-2009, 07:00 AM
 
20,324 posts, read 18,322,261 times
Reputation: 11283
The problem with tolls is that the money always gets pissed away on other things and not what it should be used on: road maintenance.
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Old 03-04-2009, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Philly
1,776 posts, read 3,679,103 times
Reputation: 824
They should pay to fix that dusty death trap. I'd hate to ever have a 422/76 commute. I'd pull my hair out.
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Old 03-04-2009, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Center City Philadelphia
1,099 posts, read 4,207,206 times
Reputation: 439
I don't live in the area, but I absolutely support it.
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Old 03-05-2009, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Montco PA
2,065 posts, read 4,290,092 times
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I live in Collegeville, and work on the Main Line, so I am part of the problem. I support the train line, but I'm against the tolls, because it's going to shift even more traffic onto local roads. There's many local roads that practically parallel 422, and I've read comments from truckers who claim they will use local roads if they toll 422. Also, I don't totally buy the argument that a train line will cause less growth. All the train will do is encourage people who work in Center City to live even farther out. I fail to see how someone who lives in Collegeville and works in, let's say Wayne, will be able to use a train to get to work. The problem is that job centers such as KOP, Wayne, and Radnor are themselves suburban. You can't just get off the train and walk 2 blocks to work.

Considering 422 has a grassy median from 363 all the way to the Sanatoga interchange, I'd rather see 2 to 4 new lanes added, with the left-most lanes being HOT/HOV lanes during peak hours. Also, a park-and-ride lot needs to be added at every interchange. Oaks, Collegeville, and Sanatoga don't have them. Royersford and Limerick already do. The HOT lanes and park-and-ride will encourage car-pooling. It also seems to me that adding lanes to a grassy median would be relatively cheap and relatively easy. Maybe a 10c per gallon gas tax can be added to all gas stations along the 422 corridor.

I think that talk of building a train is such a politically-charged thing. I think our leaders want to say they support a train, but can't pay for it so say they need to add tolls, then put the concept of tolling to the people, who will vote against it, so our leaders can say they supported a train but it was the people who rejected it. If, at the end of all this, we get more lanes, I think we're better off, because the sprawl is here, and will only get worse, whether or not 422 is 4, 6, or 8 lanes, with or without a train.
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Old 08-28-2009, 03:46 PM
 
1 posts, read 2,100 times
Reputation: 10
Noo i think we should build a phase 2 for the outlets but no more clothes stores please!!!!!i here they might build a hotel and a movie theater great now our kids can watch more hollywood then buy a hot outfit then throw a late night hotel party i live next to the outlets and the only thing i go there for is kitchen stuff cant we think of somthing better somthing that will put us in the spotlight keep the outlet parking lots full and make our area more attractive to live by.Wake up people we have nothing to do but spand money on junk thank god i can find ways to enjoy this boring area once a toll is there it's there to stay i wouldent mind paying but what am i paying for this will just keep people out and us in if thats what u want fine not me we have it all all put togather real nice around here now lets build somthing that we can truly enjoy going to.Thank you and godbless
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
4,910 posts, read 12,771,485 times
Reputation: 2635
The concept of trying to link Reading and Philadlephia has its downsides, mainly increasing sprawl. Concentrate on getting a N-S rail out in Montgomery-Chester and Delaware Counties. Hooking up with an E-W rail through Central Mont+Bucks. Id rather see a rail line from Norristown down to Chester. The Blue Route is 24 miles long and its an absolute parking lot between 4-7 pm.

If you keep building outward the core gets forgotten, left behind only to be conquered by poverty. It doesnt make any sense to see 422 explode with new growth but at the same time watch Abington Cheltenham,Havertown decline as people leave for greener pasture.

Delco is a prime example of this phenomenon as Garnet Valley/Chadds Ford/Bethel explode with new growth, former solid middle class towns are nose diving.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Philly
10,026 posts, read 14,474,108 times
Reputation: 2774
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPP1999 View Post
I live in Collegeville, and work on the Main Line, so I am part of the problem. I support the train line, but I'm against the tolls, because it's going to shift even more traffic onto local roads. There's many local roads that practically parallel 422, and I've read comments from truckers who claim they will use local roads if they toll 422. Also, I don't totally buy the argument that a train line will cause less growth. All the train will do is encourage people who work in Center City to live even farther out. I fail to see how someone who lives in Collegeville and works in, let's say Wayne, will be able to use a train to get to work. The problem is that job centers such as KOP, Wayne, and Radnor are themselves suburban. You can't just get off the train and walk 2 blocks to work.
some minor quibbles. it depends on where in radnor. I commuted to Radnor by train for years...the office was just off lancaster ave and so was the train. That said, most job centers are NOT walkable (KOP in particular). this train would basically allow people to get to jobs in conshohocken, norristown, and center city. I think the argument is that it will encourage concentrated growth, rather than the rampant sprawl that's taken hold along 422. I think it will benefit Reading and places like Phoenixville and Pottstown that will have better access to the city and other job centers.
On the whole, I support the train. I'd love to see the R6 extended across KoP past chesterbrook and through great valley to frazer along an old right of way as well. the region has a lot of needs, the blue route is a parking lot, west chester pike is a parking lot, 76 is a nightmare, 202 is getting as bad as it was pre-construction...
I'd like to add I'd only support it if it's a one seat ride between reading and philadelphia, the other options will cost more and be less useful. it's worth noting that Reading-Philly will likely take an hour and a half
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Old 08-30-2009, 12:02 PM
 
418 posts, read 1,219,887 times
Reputation: 179
I fully support public transportation

Malls and office parks should consider running shuttles to the trains until we catch up.
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,745 posts, read 7,845,060 times
Reputation: 4700
I guess since I started this thread months ago I should probably chime in.

I support the proposal, but -- as others have noted -- it has to be done right and with good foresight.

It's interesting that other posters have argued that it will encourage sprawl, because in my opinion it would encourage the opposite. If you were to open up/revitalize abandoned and defunct train stations along the Schuylkill, this would be an enormous catalyst for revitalization of older, economically-stagnant suburbs like Pottstown and Norristown; it could result in much-need transit-oriented development in those towns and around those stations for which developers could be encouraged to focus on through tax abatements and the like. The same kind of development has been accomplished or is currently being planned in a slew of suburbs (i.e., Paoli, Ardmore, Lansdale, Cheltenham, etc.)

Not to write an essay -- because this is a very complicated issue that deserves a book -- but I think there is an argument to be made that the suburban sprawl that occurred in the Philadelphia area during the past 30 years can be directly traced to a business relocating from the urban core and to the suburbs, and this has had a lot to do with the decline in mass transit usage that revolved around the regional core. Both factors, of course, stemmed from stark population loss in Philly (although this creates a chicken-egg conundrum).

Essentially -- along with efforts of companies along the 422 corridor to commit to shuttling -- this project has enormous potential to kill two birds with one stone: breathe life back into the towns along the Schuylkill and encourage, not discourage, smart growth and open space preservation. Those are the things we absolutely need to keep our region vibrant and competitive.

Last edited by Duderino; 08-31-2009 at 02:26 PM..
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