Philly Population as of 2008 (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: credit, homes, buy)

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by Duderino

Just wanted to piggyback off of this comment.

In its current state, you'd be right -- but I think that Philadelphia is definitely repositioning itself to regain an international status that will allow it to not only offset population loss but attain a population gain. The former is already beginning to occur.

I think, if you were to compare the city to the one's you've mentioned, one of the key differences is the role that immigration has played in stemming population losses. New York, of course, has always been a primary destination for immigrants, and cities like Chicago, DC and Boston have begun to leverage their assets to attract new immigrants to the city, which no doubt keep the local economy stimulated.


This report by Brookings shows how Philadelphia is beginning to re-emerge as the immigration destination it once had been up until the mid-twentieth century. If it can continue to attract educated and business-minded people from abroad, I can certainly see Philly reversing the decades-old trend of population loss and even begin to bolster the economic climate in the city.

I was wondering why my shoulders were suddenly hurting.

I see what you're saying though. I'd certainly welcome the idea of immigrants helping to revitalize the city.

[Just1Lion]

philly will continue to lose hard working citizens due to their blatantly unfair wage taxes. that will probably be the reason that i leave, whenever that is....yes i know that other large cities have a wage tax, but not like this one.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by Just1Lion

philly will continue to lose hard working citizens due to their blatantly unfair wage taxes. that will probably be the reason that i leave, whenever that is....yes i know that other large cities have a wage tax, but not like this one.

I only agree with you to an extent -- the wage tax is not too attractive for those who wish to live and/or work in the city. Still, you have to keep in mind other COL factors that keep Philadelphia an East Coast bargain, all things considered.

That is not to say the archaic taxation system in the city -- and the state, for that matter -- should be overhauled. However, I don't necessarily place too much blame on city leadership for implementing something like the wage tax when your tax base has declined drastically over the course of the past half-century -- many of which having moved to the suburbs. Especially when you've got suburban commuters using city roads, public transportation, in the jurisdiction of city police forces, etc., I don't think it's an entirely unfair system. These are all public services that cost money.

Taxes are never ideal, but they're often necessary to keep up public services that we tend to take for granted.

[Just1Lion]

i just doesnt make sense that it is so high, when this is otherwise a fairly affordable city. its always called a "blue collar, working class city". its just a kick in the nads. thats right, i broke out the word nads. from the vault.

[waltlantz]

I agree with Duderino on the points above. It stinks for some people but you then run the risk of having less or even crappier services which would only create steeper population loss probably.

Still even though I lean Democratic, I think Philly and many big northern cities that haven't bounced back need to rrethink politics. No matter what party you are, one party domination can lead to corruption and stagnation (although despite this Chicago has done very well, particularly compared to it's neighbors).

[Deep77]

Philly has a lot more going for it than going against it. I know a lot people don't believe that, but it is true. For starters, it is a key node in the Boston-Washington megopolis. We are right in the middle of largest metro areas in the country and one of the largest metro areas in the world. Our location is significant. We have the 3rd largest downtown in America and the 5th largest metro service. We all have our issues with SEPTA, but as far as American mass transit systems goes, most cities would kill for a SEPTA. We have tons of affordable housing. As the American economy becomes a knowledge-based one, we are home to schools like: UPenn, Temple, Drexel, U.of Arts, etc. The better we can harness the talent that comes out of these universities, the better we will be. These schools are not going close down, they are not moving to Montgomery County, they are not going run away because some other town offered them lower taxes. Within the next decade or two, the fastest growing cities will be college towns-look at Austin or Boston.

Philadelphia has a brighter future than a lot of other cities. We even have a better outlook than parts of the Sunbelt. Philly never had a housing crisis that occurred in Florida or California's Inland Empire. The city is forward thinking(don't laugh) in keeping people in their homes and fighting foreclosure. Thus, preventing neighborhoods turning into ghettos.

Philadelphia just now stopped the bleeding caused by suburbanization and deindustrialization. We are seeing neighborhoods outside of Center City starting to see a growth in population. Of course the growth in University City and Northern Liberties can't make up the losses in North Philly and other neighborhoods. Our crime rate is actually lower than it was in the 1980's and 1990's. Still more needs to be done. At least the homicide rate has gone down in consecutive years. With the growth of charter schools in the city, more students are learning. Some cities would love to have a Masterman or a Girls High.

Philadelphia has a lot of problems. Some of it can be solved on the local level, but a lot needs to be done on the state and federal level. Our policies towards development favors suburban sprawl. From the federally funded highways to mortgage interest write offs. We need to start rewarding people who invest in our cities and older suburbs.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by Deep77

Philadelphia has a lot of problems. Some of it can be solved on the local level, but a lot needs to be done on the state and federal level. Our policies towards development favors suburban sprawl. From the federally funded highways to mortgage interest write offs. We need to start rewarding people who invest in our cities and older suburbs.

Excellent response overall, but I just wanted to highlight this part since I believe it's paramount. The metropolitan region has to stop thinking in terms of fragmented municipalities that encourages sprawl and start to re-emphasize the notion of regional planning. Thankfully we have a very active planning commissions and a plethora of non-profits dedicated to revitalizing our urban cores and encouraging land-use planning, (i.e., Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission, Delaware Valley Smart Growth Alliance, PennFuture, etc.) but they only have so much political sway.

Unless constituents start to make more of a collective voice against sprawl by making sure that they elect representatives who are committed to Smart Growth, the high quality-of-life in our region will definitely not sustain itself.

[Deep77]

Originally Posted by Duderino

Excellent response overall, but I just wanted to highlight this part since I believe it's paramount. The metropolitan region has to stop thinking in terms of fragmented municipalities that encourages sprawl and start to re-emphasize the notion of regional planning. Thankfully we have a very active planning commissions and a plethora of non-profits dedicated to revitalizing our urban cores and encouraging land-use planning, (i.e., Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission, Delaware Valley Smart Growth Alliance, PennFuture, etc.) but they only have so much political sway.

Unless constituents start to make more of a collective voice against sprawl by making sure that they elect representatives who are committed to Smart Growth, the high quality-of-life in our region will definitely not sustain itself.

Thanks for the comps. I agree with you, the localist mentality that plagues the region is not only killing Philadelphia, but also killing a lot of suburban communities. It is one giant pissing contest between towns in who can destroy the most open spaces for gawty strip malls and mc mansions. NPR had a show on the older suburbs of Philly, and how they have been losing out to the newer suburbs. In some cases they are doing worse than Philly. What suburban towns need to know, is that just because you are doing well today, does not mean you will be doing so well 40 years from now.

There is such a divide between people living in Philadelphia and people living in the suburbs that people cannot grasp how one affects the other. I'm glad to know about the non-profits that are trying to bridge the gap between the towns. But maybe it is time for a metro level government that handles the concerns of Philadelphia and its suburbs, like in Portland. Create an urban growth boundary that forces growth and development back into Philly and the older 'burbs. It isn't a perfect model, but it is better than what we are doing now.

I also think with the way the economy is restructuring, Philadelphia will benefit when all is said and done. For about the past 5 years SEPTA has seen record ridership rate. Property near train stations are some of the most valuable in the area. People are going to opt for cheaper and smaller homes. Watch the rental market grow. Let's turn those luxuary condos into affordable rental units. They are already doing it in some parts of Center City. In the long run it is more economical to re-develop older communities, because there is an already built in infrastructure.

[waltlantz]

Isn't the Main Line doing well? I though they were Philly's marquee suburbs like NYC's Long Island. Also use the Regional Rails most, so they obviously come into the city often

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by waltlantz

Isn't the Main Line doing well? I though they were Philly's marquee suburbs like NYC's Long Island. Also use the Regional Rails most, so they obviously come into the city often

That report may have been alluding to older suburban towns along the lines of Darby,Upper Darby,Landsdowne which have definitely seen a change for the worse.

The premise is 100% correct. Suburban sprawl entices the middle class to abandon former stable towns. As Chester County,Upper Montgomery, Upper Bucks begins to flourish Delaware County, Lower Bucks are starting to see the sort of debilitating decline that has infected parts of Philadlephia.

The Main Line is doing fine and in fact is prospering.

Upper Darby and Drexel Hill were towns that were very well built and its not a good sign for this region, they should not be on the path they are on. They would not be on the path they are on without suburban sprawl.

With the beginning life cycle of Chester Springs,Royersford,Garnet Valley comes the end of the life cycle for towns in the oldest parts of the suburbs like Upper Darby.