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Old 03-10-2011, 03:13 PM
 
1,030 posts, read 3,061,771 times
Reputation: 968

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What grinds my gears is the do nothing people in the booths.

Not only is the fare system ARCHAIC, they don't have token machines in most stations, and if you have a 5 dollar bill, the change machine is likely broken. This forces you to search for change, to give the people 2 dollars to let you in.

My problem is:

IF YOU CAN HANDLE MONEY, WHY CAN'T YOU SELL ME TOKENS?

I understand if the trolls aren't allowed to handle money, but they take it left and right for individual "buzz you in," fares. Why not put the people to use and let them take change, and sell tokens.

SEPTA is easily the most retarded (and I use that by strict definition,) and backwards transit system I have ever seen. They haven't bought new Broad Street trains since 1968.. where is that money going?

I wish the government could disband SEPTA and start over again. This, and the people buying $1500 lunches from petty cash.

SEPTA is disgusting and embarrassing.
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:44 PM
 
Location: West Cedar Park, Philadelphia
1,225 posts, read 2,276,817 times
Reputation: 686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe84323 View Post
What grinds my gears is the do nothing people in the booths.

Not only is the fare system ARCHAIC, they don't have token machines in most stations, and if you have a 5 dollar bill, the change machine is likely broken. This forces you to search for change, to give the people 2 dollars to let you in.

My problem is:

IF YOU CAN HANDLE MONEY, WHY CAN'T YOU SELL ME TOKENS?

I understand if the trolls aren't allowed to handle money, but they take it left and right for individual "buzz you in," fares. Why not put the people to use and let them take change, and sell tokens.

SEPTA is easily the most retarded (and I use that by strict definition,) and backwards transit system I have ever seen. They haven't bought new Broad Street trains since 1968.. where is that money going?

I wish the government could disband SEPTA and start over again. This, and the people buying $1500 lunches from petty cash.

SEPTA is disgusting and embarrassing.
Yes, you're really the first person to rant about the retarded circle things you need to get on the train. I mean, c'mon, we all love poking fun at SEPTA, but really its not that bad of a transit system.

I've never had an issue purchasing tokens. You learn what stations don't have token machines, and you get used to getting a handful of change back from the machine. Inconvenient, yeah, but nothing to that makes me hate SEPTA with the fierceness of 10,000 suns or something.

And in any case, you can buy tokens at the booths and they do make change. I don't know if they only do this at the stations I use because I'm special, or because they've only instituted this change in the last few years and you've never used SEPTA since the 1980s.

I say the 1980s because that's when the replaced the rolling stock on the Broad Street Line, not 1968. Those cars last a long time, they're good for another 10 years at least.

Oh, and they're also updating the fare system to shiny new cards instead of tokens. This won't be completed for several years, but its not like they don't know you don't like using tokens and dealing with evil booth trolls.
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:04 PM
 
Location: back in Philadelphia!
3,260 posts, read 4,879,753 times
Reputation: 2051
I really hope that SEPTA does NOT move to an escalating fare system like DC and others with fares that step up with distance.
An escalating fare system is something that's appropriate for suburban regional rail, and does exist with SEPTA's regional rail system. Having a subway system in the city with escalating fares just penalizes people that can't afford to live in the center, and people in Center City don't really use the subway to get around Center City much anyway, because they can walk/bike everyplace (or at least I did). The NYC system has a flat fare, like SEPTA, and I think that's one of it's biggest strengths.

And tokens are 100% fine IMO -as long as you can actually buy them!
One thing that really grinds my gears about SEPTA is that not so long ago they USED to have ticket and token machines at every station. It was great...but then they took them away!

I know that they probably took the machines away as a backhanded way to "raise fares without raising fares", which at the same time responded to the constant demands that they "cut costs". And it was something which would affect tourists and casual users more than people who use the system every day, because everyday users would just get passes and buy tokens in bulk. Very clever, yes...but ultimately it just ticks people off!
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:10 PM
 
Location: West Cedar Park, Philadelphia
1,225 posts, read 2,276,817 times
Reputation: 686
I imagined the system was going to be similar to the one used by MTA in NYC.
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:20 PM
 
Location: back in Philadelphia!
3,260 posts, read 4,879,753 times
Reputation: 2051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marius Pontmercy View Post

And in any case, you can buy tokens at the booths and they do make change. I don't know if they only do this at the stations I use because I'm special, or because they've only instituted this change in the last few years and you've never used SEPTA since the 1980s.

I say the 1980s because that's when the replaced the rolling stock on the Broad Street Line, not 1968. Those cars last a long time, they're good for another 10 years at least.
Yup, some booths make change, and some don't. The ones that don't are usually marked with a sign that says "NO CHANGE". It is a little annoying though. Another SEPTA thing that's not a big deal for people who use it every day, but is confusing and frustrating to people who don't.

And yup, the Broad St Line trains are from the mid-80's (not the 60's - the old trains that they did replace in the 80's looked oooolld). And they're in pretty good shape! There are certainly older more broken down trains running on some of the NYC subway lines today. These are heavy rail cars, and extremely expensive (like 1.5 million dollars per car), and are meant to be in service for decades.
The BSL cars don't really look much older than the (smaller, cheaper) El cars to me, and those are just from 1998-1999!

I like the BSL because it's so fast. Those express trains hit 65-70mph!
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Midwest
1,283 posts, read 1,882,057 times
Reputation: 970
SEPTA is one of the most under-appreciated things about Philadelphia.

I lived in Minneapolis before I lived in Philadelphia. Have never owned a car. Depending on public transportation in both places, and SEPTA is great.

People complain about public transportation pretty much wherever they live. People in New York complain about it, people in DC complain about it. Maybe people complain about it more in Philadelphia, because native Philadelphians like complaining about Philadelphia...I don't know. But I am glad that SEPTA exists.

The Broad Street Line has cars from the 80's? Big deal. They're good trains, they go fast, and they're dependable. Coming from a city that has no subway, I'm spending too much time enjoying being able to get around by train to care how new the trains are.

The stations are smelly, yeah. I'm pretty sure they all are. My dad, who grew up in New York, took the Market-Frankford Line with me a couple weeks ago from City Hall to Drexel, and his only comment was "this smells just like the New York City subways".

As far as the tokens go, I don't really care. I was a little surprised that they didn't have the cards when I moved here. But the only difference really is how you spend your time. In Minneapolis, where they have cards, you spend a couple minutes online or at a booth adding money to your card. Here in Philadelphia, you spend a couple minutes in line, at a booth, or at any of the million stores that sell tokens. It's the same basic concept. Having the experience, there's nothing more enlightening about standing in front of a computer adding money to your card as opposed to getting tokens from a vending machine, a booth, or the grocery store.

I also like the transfer system SEPTA has. Where base fare is cheap (a token at 1.55) and a transfer costs a dollar. In Minneapolis, base fare is a little more expensive (and goes up during rush hour) but you get unlimited free transfers for 2.5 hours. It encourages obscene laziness, where someone (or groups of people....3,4,5 people) will wait at a bus stop for 10-20 minutes for a crowded bus, get on it for free, make everyone on the bus wait, miss the green light, and then get off like 3 or 4 blocks later.

I've never had problems with the change machines or token machines. Except I used to use it to get quarters for laundry, until one day a got a boatload of dollar coins instead. Learned my lesson - and it was my own fault anyway.

Minneapolis also has this "real time" system, where you can find out exactly how long it will be until a bus comes. Except you can't really depend on it, because it's full of bugs. It goes down all the time. And there were times it said the bus was 15 minutes away, and I was waiting for it to say 10 until I left, and then all of a sudden it was 5 minutes away and I wound up missing it. I'm guessing that's something that will eventually get worked out, but until then, I don't really care that SEPTA doesn't have it. The trains and many buses run often enough anyway that time doesn't even matter.

Not to mention 24 hour service on so many lines. And commuter rail service pretty late into the night (or...commuter rail at all?).

I do wish they get their online trip planner back up though.

I could go on...but I'm happy with them, is the point.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:18 PM
 
42 posts, read 99,465 times
Reputation: 24
The Broad St Subway cars are from the mid 80's? Wow, I thought they were at the oldest early 90's. They look and run good for their age. I don't know why everyone is bashing them for. I know the streetcars on the 5 Subway Surface Lines are 1981 because I seen the Kawasaki Plate on the partition behind the operator and they look and run good for going on 30 yeras old.

Being from Cleveland, SEPTA is better than the RTA. At least they're some lines that run late night. In Cleveland, they shut eveything down at midnight and your stuck. Try getting a cab in Cleveland after 11:30pm. Good luck.

Paul
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:21 PM
 
Location: West Cedar Park, Philadelphia
1,225 posts, read 2,276,817 times
Reputation: 686
Rolling stock is different than bus fleets or cars. Those K cars will be replaced on the Subway-Surface lines because they're not ADA compliant, but otherwise when their 40ish year operational lifespan ended they could be restored and run for another 40 years.

Just look at the PCC cars on the #15 or the ones still running in Toronto.
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:26 PM
 
Location: The Present
2,013 posts, read 3,804,002 times
Reputation: 1955
Something like a metrocard is gravely needed in Philly. It really is a pain in the *** when I have to go to a window and the clerk will be like, "yeah we don't have tokens, but you'll be able to use a card in 3 to 4 years". Its hilarious, you can't help but to laugh (this happened to me just a few days ago when I was down in philly). I know me, personally I "grew" up using metrocards and I think a similar system would be really good for Philadelphia, especially for people visiting the city who are using public transportation. I don't have a car, so whenever I'm down there I rely on SEPTA to get around the city and using tokens is just really frustrating.
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:42 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 23,932,371 times
Reputation: 4532
Quote:
Originally Posted by wordlife View Post
Something like a metrocard is gravely needed in Philly. It really is a pain in the *** when I have to go to a window and the clerk will be like, "yeah we don't have tokens, but you'll be able to use a card in 3 to 4 years". Its hilarious, you can't help but to laugh (this happened to me just a few days ago when I was down in philly). I know me, personally I "grew" up using metrocards and I think a similar system would be really good for Philadelphia, especially for people visiting the city who are using public transportation. I don't have a car, so whenever I'm down there I rely on SEPTA to get around the city and using tokens is just really frustrating.
The Metrocard is outdated..... NYC is behind compared to DC or Boston or PATH were pre-paid tap and go cards are used on the subways , buses , trollies and ferries....
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