Philadelphia's next hot neighborhood? (York, Washington: fit in, house, homebuyer)

[otters21]

Originally Posted by 2e1m5a

Germantown is definitely on pace to make a huge comeback. It has such a great location with it being so close to CC, Manayunk, Chestnut Hill, Fairmount Park, 76, The Blvd, Lincoln/Kelly Drive, 2 Rail Lines, 10 min bus ride to the subway. Not to mention the wonderful history and architecture of the entire area.

Also my vote goes to Germantown for the next hot area and rebirth has the potential to go as far southeast to Wayne Junction. After that much of South Philly is a contender because of it's convenience to Center City. Also the desirability of University City could be very well extend as far west to 52nd St. and perhaps beyond. However one needs to keep in mind that it took decades ( up to 50-60 - even 70 years in some areas) of white flight, rising crime and decline in many neighborhoods- it certainly did not happen overnight. On the other hand, I don't expect gentrification , rebirth and renewal to happen overnight either. It is going to take quite awhile to undo the decades of damage that was done to those aforementioned neighborhoods even though some are now experiencing inroads of gentrifcation .Unlike the older areas , parts of the Lower Northeast- ie Oxford Circle, Summerdale, Castor Gardens etc,- declined more rapidly, but I think the endless blocks of bland housing stock( early 50s and later boxy brick airlite rowhomes ) on treeless streets was not all that great in the first place. Unfortunately I feel parts of Northwest Philly- West Oak Lane, East Mount Airy, Cedarbrook etc. may be a hard sell for gentrification because of the same type of housing stock as the NE. However, the Northwest Philly neighborhoods might have a better chance of revitalization than the Northeast Philly neighborhoods because the former has many more tree lined blocks thant the latter and tree lined streets are much more attractive visually. The Nicetown - Tioga area , Strawberry Mansion , the west part of Hunting Park near Broad St. , Lehigh Ave west of Broad , Mantua Girard Ave. near the Zoo once had some of most beautiful housing stock in the whole city . Those areas were ripe for gentrification IMHO. However, sad to say , they remained undiscovered and left to rot. Unfortunately the 90s many of- if not close to half- those homes got torned down leaving scores of empty lots. I hate to say this , but because of all the teardowns ( it makes me cringe) in those areas , gentrification and rebirth is going to be hard to come by and those areas will never be the same even with any new infill that may resemble the original homes.

[Commuting North]

I'm guess it depends on how you define the next hot area. I really like Germantown personally, but the trend is people moving back into cities to be near all they offer in culture, dinning, nightlife. The two demographics that are moving in bulk back into urban areas are older semi-affluent parents whose children have left the nest, and young singles and couples. Both of those demographics (maybe three if you count seperately singles and couples of the same age), like to be near the heart of the city so they can go right out after work to Center City Sips during the summer, or meet up with friends for a HH at a cool place in town. I think Germantown is just too far removed from the city proper to draw these demographics. I see Germantown becoming more of a solidly middle class neigborhood that draws families with parents that work in the city and want to be nearby. I don't see that area getting "hot" as I would define it.

[otters21]

These are my predictions for the river wards and Kensington neighborhoods. Fishtown is going to continue to get more expensive and the priceyness will extend into East Kensington which east of Front to the river, south of Lehigh and north of Norris. As the older original folks pass on , those two areas are going to keep on loosing more and more of their blue collar working class feel. They will continue tranforming more and more into trendier places with many hipsters, artsy types, yuppies and other professionals. They will be the ones who will be taking the original folks place. Those neighborhoods will be simply extentions of Northern Liberties. Port Richmond north of Lehigh Ave. to the train tracks below Erie Ave and east of Aramingo Ave. to I-95 will absorb alot of the gentrification from it's neighbors to the south as those areas get more expensive. However north of Allegheny Ave, PR will retain some of its blue collar white ethnic - primarily Polish population( many new Polish immigrants will continue to arrive.) West of Aramingo to Frankford Ave and from Lehigh to Allegheny Aves.( I am not sure if that is a continuation of East Kensington) may see an influx of young hipsters and artsy types who may not yet to able to afford the areas south and east. The hipsters and artist types may go as far north to the train tracks below Erie Ave. ( Right now it is a racially diverse but pretty rough area). North of Lehigh Ave to the train tracks below Erie Ave. and west of Frankford Ave to the El on Kensington Ave is pretty much fair game. It could either way- a complete renaissance or a complete freefall to the point of no return. Central Kensington and Harrowgate - north of Lehigh, south of the train tracks. east of Front St. and west of the El on Kensington Ave will simply remain eastern extentions of their neighbors to the west , Fairhill and West Kensington. Those two areas along with Juniata Park to their north will continue to see full fledge white and/or middle class flight and the tipping point in those three neighborhoods will soon occur if it hasn't already. Those areas will remain impoverished and very crime ridden. They will continue to get more and more dangerous . JP is more vulnerable to decline because of the bland housing stock ( 50s or later boxy bick airlite rowhomes on treeless blocks) similiar to the declining Northeast. That is not very attractive for gentrification.

[pman]

wow, nicetown-tioga=awesome housing. must have been an incredible neighborhood. the city needs to pay attention to broad and erie now if it's going to have a shot. maybe get temple to move it's podiatry program there. it's not down for the county but it's close.
germantown is a weird animal-it's an "edge city" before consultants and corny names. philly struggles so much with jobs it's hard to imagine it returning to it's city within a city status again any time soon but if it's really to make a comeback, it's gotta be as a full service mini-city.
re west kensington, hopefully there are enough open minded people out there that don't necessarily want to live in less attractive port richmond simply because they are white. there are a lot of good blocks in west kensington, crime is down. sure, street culture isn't so anglo (read quiet) but norris is a great square and I heard a rumor fairhill is getting rehabbed. the neighborhood has problems but not like further west.

[otters21]

Originally Posted by pman

wow, nicetown-tioga=awesome housing. must have been an incredible neighborhood. the city needs to pay attention to broad and erie now if it's going to have a shot. maybe get temple to move it's podiatry program there. it's not down for the county but it's close.
germantown is a weird animal-it's an "edge city" before consultants and corny names. philly struggles so much with jobs it's hard to imagine it returning to it's city within a city status again any time soon but if it's really to make a comeback, it's gotta be as a full service mini-city.
re west kensington, hopefully there are enough open minded people out there that don't necessarily want to live in less attractive port richmond simply because they are white. there are a lot of good blocks in west kensington, crime is down. sure, street culture isn't so anglo (read quiet) but norris is a great square and I heard a rumor fairhill is getting rehabbed. the neighborhood has problems but not like further west.

I do agree about Norris Square. The gentrification from Northern Liberties has already hit Old Kensington and it is just a matter of time before it spreads northward into NS.

[solibs]

There are already a lot of artists living between Front and 5th, between Girard and Diamond. Even between 5th and Broad in that same area there are a lot of loft conversions going on. Not the $400k yuppie lofts but the kind that speculators make habitable and rent to artists for cheap until the building is worth selling to someone who will turn them into yuppie lofts.

- - - just saying, the groundwork is being laid for revival.

[otters21]

Originally Posted by solibs

There are already a lot of artists living between Front and 5th, between Girard and Diamond. Even between 5th and Broad in that same area there are a lot of loft conversions going on. Not the $400k yuppie lofts but the kind that speculators make habitable and rent to artists for cheap until the building is worth selling to someone who will turn them into yuppie lofts.

- - - just saying, the groundwork is being laid for revival.

WOW! Who knows, if there are artists interested in the area from 5th to Broad and Girard to Norris/Diamond that will be a great thing if it meets Temple.

[solibs]

The real pioneers there used to live in NoLibs and Old City before that. I know a few people who have moved here relatively recently and lived in other parts of the city before looking for big, cheap live/work spaces and wound up in that area.

Vox Populi, on the edge of the Loft District, is the only artist building I can think of in Center City and there's only one more, at the corner of 13th & Carpenter between Washington and Girard.

[kyle19125]

Loft District talk makes me wonder about that neighborhood north of the new convention center expansion (Broad Street to 9th), heading up to Spring Garden. There are already some signs of evolution with occupied buildings (many still empty) and restaurants (Cafe Lift and Prohibition Taproom). It seems to have been hopscotched for quite some time.

[solibs]

Originally Posted by Commuting North

I think Germantown is just too far removed from the city proper to draw these demographics. I see Germantown becoming more of a solidly middle class neigborhood that draws families with parents that work in the city and want to be nearby. I don't see that area getting "hot" as I would define it.

Exactly! Given my age I know too many people with kids that range in age from newborn to ~6 or 7. There seems to be 3 trajectories for them. Some commit to staying right where they are and look at private/charter schools. Some pick up and move to Collingswood and the others are heading for Mt. Airy.

But these moms & dads are only 34 and they still like to cut lose. For my friends in Collingswood it's BYOB and a short walk. For my friends in Mt. Airy outings are, surprisingly, a lot more car oriented. I think Germantown can and eventually will offer the best of both worlds there - larger houses with yards big enough for kids to have fun in and plenty of activity within walking distance. The other thing G'town has going for it is retail footprints. In South Philly, for instance, a retail space means the first floor of what is essentially a rowhouse. If you're lucky it will be two properties that are connected on the first floor. G'town has a lot of places that were actually built with shopping in mind.

I think, as with most commercial areas in the city, the people in the neighborhood light the spark and people from other neighborhoods add some fuel. I don't think Passyunk Ave. would be anything like what it is today if it weren't for all of the people from outside the neighborhood who shop/dine there.