Philadelphia has an alcohol problem (Pittsburgh, Jacksonville: homes, restaurant, prices)

[pman]

Originally Posted by loose cannon

It is the whole attitude in Philadelphia (I do not abbreviate). Newscast from bars and the obsession with sports in general. The cheesesteaks, soft pretzels, tastycakes ect. It is so low brow culture. WYSP, Y-102,WIP, the whole gamut. Eskin, Cataldi, Barkan. Blind Liberal Demoncat worshipping. I admit I like the city, and hanging out at dives like Dirty Franks discussing poetry with Art school dropouts but the overall attitude of the city annoys me.

you don't travel much do you?

and as it turns out, this 17 year old wasn't drunk, he was just high on teenage stupidity so you're assumptions were incorrect.

note: yesterday there were young guys on the subway drinking (the term is pre-gaming). It occurred to me that one issue, even for people of legal age, is price. At $7.25 per beer, people try to have a few before the game. in this case, high prices discourage consumption AT the ballpark but not overall consumption. the best thing the Phils could do is lower the price.
perhaps they should even eliminate the beer sales cutoff in exchange for a maximum limit (let's say 6). I've ordered two in the 7th just because I can't order more later (the same principle is why the 2 am close encourages extra drinking). I don't drive to the games anyway. with today's technology that shouldn't be hard. they scan the tickets at the entrance, they could scan them at the register as well.

[showhost1540]

Originally Posted by TracySam

I disagree that alcohol "prompted" this event. I don't doubt that drinking may have contributed to his inherent stupidity and inappropriate behavior. But nothing caused the behavior but the guy himself. I would never jump onto a field and resist the police, and I don't care how much alcohol you give me, I might pass out, but I certainly wouldn't do those things. You probably wouldn't either.

Until I see verifiable statistics that show that the Phila region has a higher per capita rate of alcoholism or even alcohol use, then I refuse to buy that something about the Philadelphia region and its use of alcohol or attitude toward alcohol caused the problem.

Someone gets shot? Let outlaw guns!
Someone gets bitten by a pit bull? Let's outlaw pit bulls!
Someone gets killed by a car? Let's outlaw cars!
Someone gets drunk and acts like a a$$? Let's outlaw alcohol at stadiums, and tailgating too!

Where is individual responsibility?

Agreed. Well said.

[Peanut206]

What city doesn't have an alcohol problem?

[orrmobl]

There is no individual responsibility - that's why it has to be legislated. Let's legalize drugs and weapons for all and let Darwin take over, huh?

And Philly fans are absolutely disgusting drunks, no doubt about it. I've been to other cities for Eagles games and our fans are the only ones causing trouble - the drinking starts in the morning at Philly International and continues on and off the plane, during layovers, into the wee hours...I have seen air line attendants at their wits end with these supposed adults.

Loose cannon has the right idea, but getting a bunch of drunks to admit that they have a problem is like getting a Republican to admit that the Bush years were some of the worst in American history.

[orrmobl]

Originally Posted by pman

you don't travel much do you?

note: yesterday there were young guys on the subway drinking (the term is pre-gaming). It occurred to me that one issue, even for people of legal age, is price. At $7.25 per beer, people try to have a few before the game. in this case, high prices discourage consumption AT the ballpark but not overall consumption. the best thing the Phils could do is lower the price.
perhaps they should even eliminate the beer sales cutoff in exchange for a maximum limit (let's say 6). I've ordered two in the 7th just because I can't order more later (the same principle is why the 2 am close encourages extra drinking). I don't drive to the games anyway. with today's technology that shouldn't be hard. they scan the tickets at the entrance, they could scan them at the register as well.

Oh yeah and maybe if we legalize drugs, less people will use them.

And a maximum limit would not discourage people from getting loaded in the parking lot. It's still cheaper and drunks will be drunks. I'm just amazed at how many grown men party like they were still in college, most of whom barely graduated high school...I think putting Prozac in the water system would be a better solution to many of Philly's problems.

[Jfoldno7]

orrmobl, if you have a problem with how a particular fan is acting, drunk or not, you report it. What you don't do is make everyone else not be able to enjoy a beer responsibly because 10 people couldn't handle it.

I have no love to Philly sports teams (I didn't grow up in the area) but outright bans are not the answer to any problem. This type of behavior goes on all over the country, and throughout the world. When you are a sports fan you join a group that runs the gamut from the wisest people walking among us to the conventional town fools. Punish those whose behavior crosses the line of acceptability, but don't make others pay for a small group's lack of self control.

[pman]

Originally Posted by orrmobl

Oh yeah and maybe if we legalize drugs, less people will use them.

actually, that's often what happens but don't let facts get in the way of your rash judgements. and let's also overlook that the supposed problem has occurred with some of the country's most restrictive laws. your control sysem=FAIL.

Originally Posted by orrmobl

And a maximum limit would not discourage people from getting loaded in the parking lot. It's still cheaper and drunks will be drunks. I'm just amazed at how many grown men party like they were still in college, most of whom barely graduated high school...I think putting Prozac in the water system would be a better solution to many of Philly's problems.

I'm not saying it would put an end to the problems but lower prices would certainly curtail the pre-gaming. At $7.25 a beer, we have some of the highest prices around.
http://teammarketing.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/std-content/repos/Top/News/2010_mlb_fci.pdf (broken link)

excessive prices contribute to pre-gaming. a maximum limit with lower prices would likely contribute to drinking fewer in the parking lot. I'd bet that pre-gaming has a lot more to do with pricing than making sure you drink more than six beers. what's funny, is that our blue laws were put in place because of views like yours and Philadelphians reputation for drink, and they've failed. laws don't change a culture. you want fewer drunks? get rid of the stupid laws and campaign about moderate drinking. but getting teetotalers to admit that moderate drinking is the better way to combat excessive drinking than restrictive laws is like getting othe social conservatives to admit individual responsibility is more effective than preaching abstinence.

[Peanut206]

No prozac would not be a good solution. If people stop drinking water than they'll go crazy and start killing everyone. Lol. Or at least that's the excuse the criminals' lawyers use.

[orrmobl]

Originally Posted by pman

actually, that's often what happens but don't let facts get in the way of your rash judgements. and let's also overlook that the supposed problem has occurred with some of the country's most restrictive laws. your control sysem=FAIL.

I'm not saying it would put an end to the problems but lower prices would certainly curtail the pre-gaming. At $7.25 a beer, we have some of the highest prices around.
http://teammarketing.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/std-content/repos/Top/News/2010_mlb_fci.pdf (broken link)

Funny because I am actually pro-legalization and I would personally toke up when it happens...so you FAIL in that not only will more people partake when it is legal, but lowering the price on alcohol in the stadium will have the same effect.

Nice try though, pigeonholing me like that; I'm not anti anything, you're just wrong...

[orrmobl]

Originally Posted by Peanut206

What city doesn't have an alcohol problem?

Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Fort Lauderdale, Jacksonville...sorry I haven't been to games anywhere else! But seriously our fans really are the scourge of professional sports. Banning alcohol would ensure one could enjoy at least the second half of a game as the drunks would have sobered up, passed out, or left by then...

And Jfold, if everyone who was a belligerent drunk was reported, at least half the stadium would have to leave - just not possible...I would gladly give up drinking at sporting events to avoid the loads and their shenanigans - and some of these are my personal friends!