What is the point of having kids? (eastern, marriage, society)

[sskink]

Originally Posted by Listener2307

I don't know about him, but my answer is, "Because everyone needs a partner. Gay. Straight, Asexual, whatever. Everyone."

I think the question was asked because the OP stated his wife wants kids and he doesn't. Thus a very valid question.

Anyway, couple of nights ago I watched "Children of Men" for the first time. Yeah, it's just a movie. But it dramtizes one potential outcome of a world without kids. Pretty depressing.

[RomaniGypsy]

Originally Posted by Caltovegas

The answer is within you. Do you enjoy life?

Not especially. It's indescribably difficult to be the kind of person I am, trapped within a world run by people vastly different from me and mostly populated by people vastly different from me. I have a high-functioning autism condition - professionally diagnosed. How many people like me are out there? The proportion of people with autism is only approximately 1% (Autism Society - Facts and Statistics) and when you figure that that includes all types, not just high-functioning, the proportion of all people who have conditions within the ballpark of mine is substantially below 1%. Add to that how you never hear of any American or world leaders being high-functioning autistic, and it becomes rather clear that those who create and run the system haven't the foggiest clue what it's like to live within the mind of a high-functioning autistic.

Originally Posted by Caltovegas

Are you happy to be alive?

It beats being dead, but the purpose of life is to make a positive impact in some way. I'm a think-big kind of guy, trapped in a probably-won't-be-any-more-than-small situation. My family isn't rich, I never made a sex tape (not that many people would want to pay for it even if I did), I don't fit in with the society in which I live, I'd probably do even worse in foreign societies (few of which, I'm sure, have high-functioning autistics in proportions greater than 1%), and I haven't chanced into meetings with people in places of prominence or influence. Absent those things, I'm highly unlikely to "make it big" in any way. So... sometimes I'm happy to be alive, and sometimes I wonder "what's the point?". Almost everyone has to suffer to live. (Actually, I'm sure that everyone does.) Most of us suffer through trading our time for money by working at jobs that slowly murder our souls. Many of us suffer through trading our time for money by working at jobs that slowly murder our bodies. Some of us (like me) suffer through not being able to buy nice things because the work we love doing, though it preserves our souls, doesn't pay much. Some of us never know a moment's peace due to the fame of being a celebrity (musicians, actors, etc). Come to think of it, I've never known of anyone whose life did not require some form of suffering to continue. That condition, in and of itself, combined with how God has never given me any incontrovertible direction and/or guidance for what I'm supposed to do with my life, dampens my enthusiasm for life. And, by connection, it dampens my enthusiasm for bringing children into this world. (The funny thing is that few people actually "get" this vibe from me. My cousin's husband, for example... he's 11 years my senior and he considers me "his hero" because he believes nothing fazes me... like I have this shield around me and nothing gets under my skin. I wonder where he got that from... only guess I have is that I live life "my way" to the best of my ability. To me that's nothing special because it's the only thing I CAN do. When you don't fit in, the best thing you can do is play the hand you're dealt as well as is possible.)

You know, I don't get sad when a child dies tragically. (Of course, every time a child dies, it's tragic.) My wife usually cries when she hears or reads about a child dying... I don't. I feel neutral about it... at least I have thus far because no child close to me has ever died. On the one hand, I understand that nobody ever wants to see a loved one die. Such a loss is not easy to handle for those close to the deceased. Yet, that innocent child is now in paradise with God in heaven. The child shall never know the harshness of this world nor the cruelty of adult life. He will never have to suffer at a job he hates, nor suffer through poverty, nor suffer through having his world operated for him by people who don't care one bit about him, etc. He'll never have to sit in traffic, do his taxes, go shopping at Wal-Mart, take out the trash, watch other loved ones die, get sick, etc. He escapes ALL of that. His (albeit untimely) death, while still young and innocent, puts him in paradise while the rest of us still have to suffer on earth. I cannot find that to be a bad outcome.

Originally Posted by Caltovegas

If your parents thought as you do you wouldn't have your life.

Not true. I have my life, in part at least, because my dad gave in to my mom's desire to have kids. My dad's childhood was not pleasant and furthermore, he felt that having kids would take my mom's energy and effort away from him. In the beginning, he leaned at least moderately toward not having kids. As it turned out, after he had kids, he liked having them so much that he wanted a third one after my brother was born... maybe I can hope for that outcome in my own life. However, ask him now how the whole child-rearing thing turned out, and if he's positive that his comments are 100% off the record and secret, he'll probably tell you it wasn't worth it. It cost him his sanity (he ended up moving us to a more expensive town because he felt that was best for his family, and in so doing he had to work two soul-killing full-time jobs for over a decade), perhaps his marriage, and by connection a huge chunk of his life. He's staring down his 70th birthday and his youngest (my brother), who just turned 30, still hasn't moved out. I can assure you of one thing - I don't want my kids living with me at age 30. I might do what one of my adult music students did - kick 'em all out at age 18 after graduating high school... or age 22 if they go to college. "You're either going to college, going into the military, or going to work... but whatever you choose, you ain't living here full-time anymore."

Originally Posted by Caltovegas

It's really simple when you think about it. Just understand from my little understanding of women your wife has a window of opportunity and life isn't guaranteed. If anything happens to you God forbid she may get short changed.

To have or have not is a serious decision. Of course I have no say in the decision but if it's what the wife wants then I would go for it at the very least for her happiness. Then again babies turn into teenagers. Wish y'all the best.

At the risk of giving too much information, my wife and I have a love life that would make almost all men (both married and single) drool with envy. (Women too, I imagine... but I can only speak confidently for men.) Not once have we used any contraceptive methods of any kind. We've been married for almost three years. Never once has her menstrual cycle been anything but regular... which, to me, means we've never conceived a child no matter how many times we've lit up the sheets. So... we sure are "going for it".

Originally Posted by Natsku

If you don't actually want to have kids but your wife does then you have a problem. I don't think its really good to have children just because your partner wants them, because if you're not really in it as a parent its likely to cause issues, not only with the kids but between you and your wife. Agreeing on whether or not you want to have kids is really something you should do before you get married.

Since I want to see my legacy carried forth into future generations, I want to have some offspring that will do so. However, given that there are no guarantees, it's only one of those back-burner desires. From what I've seen, people tend to reach an age at which they get really antsy to have kids... I still feel too young to have kids. I like my freedom. And the older I get, the more I question the desire to send my legacy forth into the world. Heaven knows, it's becoming increasingly harder to bear that legacy even today. A logical thinker in an increasingly illogical world. It doesn't matter how much water you add to oil - the twain shall never mix.

Originally Posted by TetiaryIngrid

1. when your wife's girlfriends start having kids, she will want them too. sadly a large percentage of people having kids is a "keeping up with the joneses" complex.

It's already happened. You want to see my wife get impassioned? Talk with her about people having children who don't deserve to have children (drug addicts, teenagers, etc).

Originally Posted by TetiaryIngrid

3. and of course there is the biological urge to procreate.

I've never felt that.

Originally Posted by L.K.

And, I don't mean this in a mean way, but it's not too surprising to me that you have an ex-wife. I only mean this because judging by your posts, I would suspect that you are an intense person with a very strong personality.

That I am. My ex is my ex because she deceived me into believing that she liked my intensity, strong personality, logical thought processes, etc. I could go into the long story but perhaps it's best summarized as follows: We got divorced due to "irreconcilable differences" (for lack of a better term) and we both agreed to the divorce. (It was not one of us pushing for it while the other didn't want it - the conversation we had about ending our marriage was the most pleasant and argument-free serious conversation we'd had in years.) She admitted all along that I had never changed from who I was in the beginning. She also said, after our divorce, that I was the most honest man she'd ever known. If, from those true statements, it isn't obvious that the only reason why there could have been irreconcilable differences was because she had intentionally misrepresented herself from the very beginning, I guess you'd have to hear the whole story to be convinced.

Originally Posted by TetiaryIngrid

That's a good thing in many ways, but your logicalness is not condusive to the abstract concept of having children. There are no quarentees with kids. It's a great big giant crap shoot.

And that right there is what scares me. The family that lives across the street from my parents has a daughter who is 37 years old, and she has the mental age of about a 10-year-old. She will never be able to live on her own. She's not totally helpless, but she couldn't make it on her own. They're in their 70's and they still have to drag her everywhere. I don't want to be that guy. I want to know that 22 years after our last child comes into the world, my wife and I will once again be able to have the house to ourselves. I'm a free spirit. Even my screen name attests to that... I have legitimate Gypsy heritage in a quantity sufficient enough that I could probably get "in" with any true Gypsy group I meet.

Maybe we're meant to adopt instead. At least if we do that, we can ensure that we won't get a child who has such "special needs" that it could be reasonably expected that moving out at age 18 or 22 ain't gonna happen.

Originally Posted by TetiaryIngrid

However, you appear to have a lot of extra time on your hands to construct these long posts.

You really want to know how I had that time? I ate something for dinner last night that didn't agree with me. Were that not the case, I'd have been in bed instead of in the bathroom writing that last post. Right now my wife is still sleeping, I'm not hungry, I can't get much (if any) actual work done because it's a Saturday, and it's cold and snowing outside (meaning I can't do any yard work either, aside from shoveling the steps which I did after taking the dog out). So, yeah... free time. It happens occasionally.

Originally Posted by TetiaryIngrid

You will need it because your time will be eaten up by having a child. A person can never understand that until you have one. So, if you find that you are unwilling or unable to go through several years of pure unselfishness, please, do not have a baby. And by all means, assure that your marriage is stable, because it will be tested.

I'd give my marriage stability a B. Our first two years were ROUGH despite all of the safeguards I had put in place before getting married to prevent against that. The third year was significantly better, though I feel that I'd need another "better" year or two in order to believe that the rough stuff from the beginning shall never again show its ugly face. Even if we continue doing well as we've been recently, I don't know what our future holds (in ways other than interpersonally). The economy could die... it's been moribund for quite a while despite the fallacies that the US Government wants people to accept as truth. One or both of us could become horribly disabled... that wouldn't wreck our love for each other but it sure would cast into a different light the idea of having kids. The point is that we've had practially zero LIFE stability recently... and that does taint marriage stability just a tad.

Originally Posted by TetiaryIngrid

Best of luck to you and especially your wife. You are by no means wrong for examining your feelings. But I don't think you're going to get a clear cut answer. I feel the only reason to have kids is pretty nebulous.....biological need, unconditional love, to keep your lineage alive. I don't think that there is one of us out there, if we are totally honest with ourself, who at one time or another didn't say, "my God, why did I do this?"

And, see, I think that's terribly unfair to the child. I would never want to think that way about my child. The closest parallel I can draw is that I always felt, before getting married, that I would never want to second-guess my decision to marry whom I married... for the same reason... even if I never voiced that notion, its mere existence is unfair to my wife. It's even worse for a child. That child didn't ask to be brought into this world. He/she is the innocent party. To ask myself "my God, why did I do this?!" is essentially questioning the wisdom of creating a sentient human life. That's far more severe than questioning the wisdom of taking a different job, or moving to a different area. If my child was of the age of reason and he/she knew that I was asking myself why I had children, he/she would conclude "my daddy doesn't want me and wishes I was never born". A kid will never recover from that. Again, even if I never vocalized that thought, it's almost as bad merely HAVING that thought. I'd rather never have kids than to have to question why I had kids after having kids.

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by EvilCookie

All the reasons against kids that you listed are absolutely true. I love my son to death, however I still have lots of days where it's so so stressful and exhausting, and my husband will ask, only half-kidding: and you really want to go through all that again? And yet I do. Because in spite of all the challenges, there are the moments that go along with having kids that I couldn't fathom not experiencing; maybe it's simply biology, that maternal instinct, but I know that my life would be empty and desolate if I didn't have kids. I think it's the purity of them, the simplicity, the innocence, their love that's so entirely unconditional. No one else, except your parents, will ever love you so simply and purely - and there's no one you love like your child. It's the way they see the world - that wide-eyed wonder, the boundless curiosity, their crazy imaginations and creativity, the hilarious things they say and the amazingly accurate observations they make. Through my son, I'm getting to relive my childhood again - to pull away from my boring adult worldview and see everything through the eyes of a child again, to play, to giggle, to ticklefight and snuggle. To witness first-hand how amazing these little brains are, how incredibly quickly they learn, how they absorb the world like a sponge. To inhale that sweet baby smell, to be hugged with sticky little hands, to hear the sound of little feet running across the floor. To experience the wonder of growing a life inside my body, and to look at this little person and know that we created that. And in the future, the hope of having my grown children visit, with their families and kids, like we do with our parents now and see the joy and the pride and how much they adore their grandson. Finally, to have a purpose, to have someone to give ourselves to; because I just can't see living a life without that, to me that would be an empty life not worth living. But to each his own of course.

I loved your post and you said it so much better than I could. Yes, kids are expensive; YES, they suck up all your time; YES, life can be stressful - but there is plenty of joy there too. Chubby, baby arms around your neck with the words "This is MY Mommy."

Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy

And, see, I think that's terribly unfair to the child. I would never want to think that way about my child. The closest parallel I can draw is that I always felt, before getting married, that I would never want to second-guess my decision to marry whom I married... for the same reason... even if I never voiced that notion, its mere existence is unfair to my wife. It's even worse for a child. That child didn't ask to be brought into this world. He/she is the innocent party. To ask myself "my God, why did I do this?!" is essentially questioning the wisdom of creating a sentient human life. That's far more severe than questioning the wisdom of taking a different job, or moving to a different area. If my child was of the age of reason and he/she knew that I was asking myself why I had children, he/she would conclude "my daddy doesn't want me and wishes I was never born". A kid will never recover from that. Again, even if I never vocalized that thought, it's almost as bad merely HAVING that thought. I'd rather never have kids than to have to question why I had kids after having kids.

Hmmm. I find this a bit naïve. I'll bet there are a whole bunch of sleep-deprived people, having spent the last 12 hours listening to a colicky baby scream ~ that secretly wonder 'Why did I do this'????? In a bad moment; I would imagine that to be quite common.

IF one is still asking that question by the time the child has reached 'the age of reason'; then that might be a different story.

[Huckleberry3911948]

its a form of immortality or that is the belief, the distrubing part is that i dont see the good being transmitted to the offsprings so they bear little resemblance to the original.

[stan4]

Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy

Here it is, put simply. Having kids enters a certain number of negatives into the life of the parents. They include, but are not limited to:

-Far less "free time"
-Far less freedom to do what you want to do, in that free time (you always have to consider how it will impact the kids)
-Higher expenses which require more work from the parents to make ends meet
-More stress
-More work to keep your house "kid-proof"
-Can't go out unless you get a babysitter
-And then if your kid is badly disabled, you may not ever get to live on your own again (with the kids out of the house) until you go into a nursing home


However, I don't see how the positives outweigh the negatives in today's world.

Yes. Far less "free time." Which only matters if there is something else you'd rather be doing. I like hanging out with my kid. The older he gets, the more fun he is. He comes with me to run my errands. He "helps" me in the kitchen. He LOVES our home gym and we do martial arts stuff together. Exercising is more fun when the two of us are juking and kicking and running with a soccer ball outside.

The same applies to less freedom. If what you want to do is hang with your kids and do stuff with them or you just get that warm feeling that they are around in the room with you doing their own thing, then this argument is irrelevant.

Higher expenses...well, that does kind of depend on how you set your life up. And ANYTHING you add to your life can create higher expenses, from a kid to a boat to a dog to house to a car to an AV room, etc.

More stress? Doing things you enjoy with people you love alleviates stress.

I'll tell you a secret. Outside of outlet plugs, we didn't really childproof our house. Oh, wait, we moved one lamp and put padding around the coffee table. That's it.

Nope. You can't go out unless you get a babysitter. True fact. Unless you take him. We don't like going out anymore anyway. Restaurants are usually universally crappy, we don't go to bars (I never liked that), movie theaters are full of creeps on their cell phones...we stopped going out WAY before we had a kid. Now, TODAY we are going to a play...and my parents are going to watch him. They hang out with him several times a week, anyway, though we usually hang out with them, too.

Yes, the last thing you say has no argument. If you take responsibility for a life, there you are. It's fairly rare, though. You can't go around life being afraid of what might happen. Then you might as well never get in your car.


The positives? I can't describe to you the feeling I have when I hang out in a room together with my parents and brother and we're all together and laughing and hanging out...from when I was a kid all the way to today (adult of 37). And now there is another new little person who adds to the group and the joy. It's a support system. It's a good friend. It's someone to do stuff with. It's someone to teach you. It's your shelter from an often otherwise uncaring world. There are a lot of positives and the negatives you mention really only reflect the attitude of someone who doesn't like children. I know you say you do, but I don't think you do.

[stan4]

I will tell you one thing I HATE about having a kid, though.

My level of anxiety has been seriously ratcheted up because of caring so much about his well-being. It comes in moments and waves, but it SUCKS when it happens.

There is a scene in the movie Parenthood where Gil's dad explains to him how he hated that feeling of being helpless and caring so much when Gil was sick as a baby. Totally sums it up.

[krawhitham]

I was raised on the Bible, going to two Churches every week and my mom is very religious. While I do not go to Church anymore, and I don't identify with a particular religion, I am absolutely not all screwed up because I was brought up on religion! I do know some people who had a different experience than I did, and rejected the Church because their experiences were traumatic, but I never experienced anything like that. Just because someone is brought up a certain way doesn't mean they'll automatically be "messed up" in adulthood!

Your argument is pretty weak. No free time? Give me a break, if you had kids, they'd be the love of your life! Do you remember your life before you met your wife, and all of the free time you had before you had to take her feelings and what she wanted to do into consideration? Do you regret marrying her because you wish you'd have more free time? I sure hope not. Life is about love to many people, and can you even imagine the love you'd experience between you and a human being that you created? Some say it is the ultimate love.

Kids bring a whole different world into your life. You discover things you never knew existed. As much as you teach your children, they teach you. They especially teach you patients and selflessness, which are two things that make us all better people in society!

I understand your concerns, but they all sound a little immature. The main argument I can see for not having children is overpopulation. As long as some of us are having kids, the human race will live on, but I'm not sure I can live with myself overpopulating an already exhausted world.

This is all coming from a 30-something unmarried female who does not want to bare children, though I am in a long term monogamous relationship and we've talked about the option of adopting if that ever became a desire or possibility.

[beera]

Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy

If parents are going to be pilloried for "being parents" (check out the bad press that "Tiger Mom" has received, IN SPITE OF how her children have stood up for the way she was as a mother!)...

I can't answer for you why you should or shouldn't have kids, but I know I'm pregnant now and can't wait to see our baby We've always wanted kids, I guess part of it is the next chapter in our lives, but part of it is feeling something is missing. Maybe that's part of my biological urge thing

As for the Tiger mom, did you read her book? I did, I thought she was crazy, I understand wanting your kids to do well, to be good people, to be successful, etc. But I think making your child practice violin 6 hours a day while they are crying they don't want to (EVEN ON VACATION). OR when your kids make you a birthday card and you throw it back to them and tell them it's ugly, make a better one, you are going to come across people who think your methods are too barbaric, for lack of better word.

Yes she had great kids, but IMO she was lucky and it could have gone either way. Even she admits in her book she was harsh and what worked for her first kid barely worked for her second. Her second child was very resistant to her parenting and she eventually did have to tone it down.

I think kids can be raised with a firm and loving hand and come out just as well as her kids.

[steelstress]

Originally Posted by stan4

I will tell you one thing I HATE about having a kid, though.

My level of anxiety has been seriously ratcheted up because of caring so much about his well-being. It comes in moments and waves, but it SUCKS when it happens.

There is a scene in the movie Parenthood where Gil's dad explains to him how he hated that feeling of being helpless and caring so much when Gil was sick as a baby. Totally sums it up.

There was a discussion on a local talk radio show where they were discussing a study that said no-kid marriages were happier. The host shared that his wife had told him recently that if she had known that she would love their two kids as much as she does, she would have never had them because she hasn't slept well since having them and won't until they're grown.

I believe it.

[Mom2Feebs]

Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy

I created this thread due to a debate I got into with some people on the Philosophy forum, regarding an issue of parenting. I'm 33 years old, married, but I don't have kids. I've never felt like I REALLY want kids. My wife is practically dying for kids and we're not doing anything to retard that process, but there have been no kids yet.

Here it is, put simply. Having kids enters a certain number of negatives into the life of the parents. They include, but are not limited to:

-Far less "free time"
-Far less freedom to do what you want to do, in that free time (you always have to consider how it will impact the kids)
-Higher expenses which require more work from the parents to make ends meet
-More stress
-More work to keep your house "kid-proof"
-Can't go out unless you get a babysitter
-And then if your kid is badly disabled, you may not ever get to live on your own again (with the kids out of the house) until you go into a nursing home

Keep in mind, I love kids and kids generally love me. I've been a teacher for many years and whenever we get together with my wife's family, I'm always the one entertaining the kids. I'm not kid-averse.

However, I don't see how the positives outweigh the negatives in today's world. The biggest positive I can think of is that having kids enables the parents to hand their legacy down to future generations, such that it doesn't die when they die. Beyond that, I can't see much that would counterbalance the negatives significantly enough. Sure, kids are entertaining and funny. They sometimes give love too, especially when they're young and innocent. But it appears that everyone has differing views on what is acceptable and unacceptable as far as how to raise kids. The result is kids get vastly varying upbringings, which causes conflict along the way... in ever-greater amounts as the people age.

If parents are going to be pilloried for "being parents" (check out the bad press that "Tiger Mom" has received, IN SPITE OF how her children have stood up for the way she was as a mother!), and the expectation is that we just bend and flex and whatever so that our kids can be exactly who they want to be without us raising them to adhere to any predetermined moral code, then why have kids? Even if that moral code is "my own personal moral code that I devised for myself without help from other people, nor religion, nor anything else", it's still predetermined as far as my kids go, because THEY didn't come up with it - it was in effect before they were able to develop their own. Really - why have kids? Just so they can entertain us? Just so they can give us love?

The consensus of opinion on that thread has been that, if I raise my kids according to the Bible, they're going to end up horribly psychologically deformed and that's going to be a terrible thing. (I'm not surprised about that, given the ignorance of modern human beings.) People of all stripes are going to say the same thing about SOME type of upbringing. If you bring your kids up to follow the Koran to the letter, they'll have mental problems. If you bring your kids up to be atheists, they'll have mental problems. If you bring your kids up exactly as your parents brought you up, they'll have mental problems (because this is NOW, not "then"). There's absolutely no consensus of opinion on how to raise a kid. Therefore, why in the heck should we HAVE kids? Let's face it. The world is getting worse and worse. If I had a nickel for every middle-aged to elderly person who has told me "I wouldn't want to have a kid in today's world", I wouldn't have to work another day in my life. Any kid who enters the world today is going to deal with unprecedented levels of strife, worry, stress, etc. For example, when I was a kid, NOBODY ever brought a gun to school. Now hardly a month ever goes by without the news talking about some school shooting somewhere.

Evidently, the kids that people had in generations past have not made the world a better place - they've only made the world a worse place. Oh sure, SOME people will say it's better for some others - heaven knows, America has become increasingly good for the poor and lazy, as well as those who choose "alternative" lifestyles which were once unfathomable... but the numbers don't lie. Incarceration is at an all-time high, while laws are becoming increasingly relaxed so as to give crooks every shot they can get at staying out of jail. Out-of-wedlock pregnancy is at an all-time high. New drugs are coming out all the time, constantly thwarting the efforts of law enforcement. Domestic terrorism is at an all time high. International terrorism is at an all time high. The world has been at war for over a decade and it ain't going to stop anytime soon. In my opinion and the opinion of many others whom I've spoken with, the world is getting worse and worse.

Therefore, one cannot say "I want to have kids to make the world a better place". The better argument would be that if you want to make the world a better place, DON'T have kids. But, that's a different question for a different time.

I really want to know. Given the cost, hassle, etc. of having kids, and the lack of tangible guarantee that the kids will turn out anywhere near what you'd hope your kids would become, WHY have kids? (You could get all of the negatives with very little of the positive. Your kids could disappear and never talk to you again. They might commit suicide. They might end up in jail. WHY have kids?)

Oh, my. *smiling* I feel a bit like Yoda. lol. So many observations, so much wondering. The answer is very easy, but it will not be revealed to you until you have one, or two, or more...and you're sitting there, one day, as they toddle around wondrously looking at the world, and you think to yourself, my house is a disaster, I look like hell, my boobs (or your gut, LOL) will never be the same, and I can't remember the last time I got 8 hours' sleep or sex for that matter (that changes after the newborn/infant phase but takes work)...and yet you could never, ever imagine your life any other way. When they're older, it's the same way, but yes, there are exceptions to this--drugs, suicide, etc...but the media and Hollywood skews so much. For most people, it is infinitely rewarding to be a parent, even during/after those "rough years". So hard for Mom2Feebs to tell Mom2FeebsBeforeKids this, she never would have listened or understood it in any way.

Oh, and raising a disabled child, is a gift beyond measure. I have a daughter with autism--she's primarily non-verbal, but she is the most amazing creature I've ever had the privilege of interacting with. You figure out what your life will be like, but it's never dread-filled thoughts. My only worry is what I must prepare for when we die. She has a little sister that adores her, and cousins that love her too, so I know she will be taken care of should something happen to us, but we have to prepare for the financial part of that so she is not a drain on them, money-wise. Right now, our joy is in the thought of retiring and showing her the world, if she hasn't already conquered it on her own! :-)