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Old 01-15-2020, 05:12 PM
 
21,922 posts, read 9,491,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
Life is neither fair nor unfair. It just is.

But people should strive to be fair. Parents and teachers are particularly obligated to be fair to the kids they are entrusted with.

I need to be fair to the harassed retail clerk. I need to be fair to struggling friends. I need to be fair to my spouse.

But, no, life is not fair.
I don't think you mean 'fair' in these cases. I think you mean decent or civil.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:55 AM
 
21,922 posts, read 9,491,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
The world is an inanimate object, and by definition it can neither be fair nor unfair; it simply exists and nothing more.



Do you think it's fair that Volkswagen told people that if they bought their diesel cars they'd be helping the environment, only to find out that Volkswagen had programmed the emission control device to turn on during emissions-testing and then turn off during normal driving so that it actually caused more harm to the environment?

Do you think it's fair for a home-owner to lie by omission and not tell you the house you're buying is infested with termites?

Do you think it's fair for your spouse to cheat on you?

Fairness is about honesty.

Unfortunately, many engage in a Logical Fallacy called Equivocation, where "fairness" is equivocated with "sharing." They are not the same thing.




That has nothing to do with fairness and everything to do with jealousy and envy.

And sloth and laziness. If the accounting pukes want to work from home, then they should go find a job that allows them to do that, or start their own business where they can do what they want.
No, it's not. It's about things being weighted equally. It's not possible.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:57 AM
 
21,922 posts, read 9,491,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSudo View Post
The world is society in this context, and it's up to each individual to decide and fight for what they want out of society. Society, as a whole, dictates fairness through public policy and philanthropy.

I think a desire, or lack of desire rather, for fairness probably ultimately depends on how close you've been to insolvency or destitution. I think the further removed you are from those dire situations, and the more protected you've been from that throughout your life, probably dictates how you feel about the subject of fairness. For instance, if I had been born into wealth and insulated from risk of insolvency, I may actually begin to believe that it was my destiny all along to be born into this position; that I was chosen. Therefore, I may also view fairness/equality as a pre-determined outcome, and something of little concern to me otherwise. On the other hand, if I grew up poor, or have been at risk of losing everything, I may advocate for a more equitable society so as to insulate others from the dangers of insolvency/destitution. I think many a battle for fairness and equality stems from feelings of empathy from those who've been in that position or close to it.
So rich people bad, poor people good?
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Old 04-03-2020, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Northern Maine
5,466 posts, read 3,063,037 times
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The only place where everything is fair is hell.
They tried in the CCCP for 75 yrs and ended up with 50% alcoholism among males today.
Oh and 40 million murdered but who's counting when everything is fair.
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Old 04-04-2020, 03:50 AM
 
Location: Homeless
17,717 posts, read 13,531,232 times
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No, now suck it up and put your big boy pants on. That’s what i was taught at around ten years of age.
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Old 04-04-2020, 05:21 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,658 posts, read 3,861,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
The only place where everything is fair is hell.
Hell isn't anymore real than a 'fair world' is.
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Old 07-19-2020, 11:58 AM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,250,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
Whether one is born to good parents, or is mowed down in a traffic accident at a young age, is random chance and thus has nothing to do with fairness. Fairness is about people being treated equally by an outside agent that has the ability to be fair, or unfair.

In other words, if a boss hires men only for a job that one of either sex is capable of, that would be unfair if qualified women applied and were not given an equal opportunity; or if one child in a family was given all the presents at Christmas, and another in the same family got none, if both were good kids and all else is equal, that would be unfair.

When people say "Life isn't fair" they are generally saying that not all people have the same opportunities, and not all consequences are dealt equally, which of course are true statements, and they are generally referring to random chance, or something beyond the control of mankind. But when people use "Life isn't fair" to describe favoritism, discrimination, or unequal treatment, then they are using that phrase as an excuse and that is "unfair" and shouldn't be tolerated.
Fairness comes in different flavors.

Equality is the classically liberal definition of fairness. Equal treatment, equal opportunity.

However some now see equality as unfair. Why? Because people are born with different traits and circumstances such that even with equal treatment, people have different outcomes.

The next theory of fairness is called equity rather than equality. Equity demands unequal treatment to compensate for unequal starting points. In other words, if disparities arise in outcomes, that is evidence of an unfair system. A fair system would have everyone enjoying the same outcomes.

For 1000 years people believed in nobility, holiness, the divine right to rule, etc. Even before that for thousands of years some rulers were believed to be gods themselves. That was considered fair. In the past 300 years we have believed in equality. However that time is coming to an end and more people believe in an equity definition of fairness. What is fair can change and is culturally defined, no matter how sensically or nonsensically according to other sets of criteria.

Fairness is how we model good relationships between individuals. It is sometimes extended to our relationship with the natural world, but usually only insofar as someone else has a better relationship with the natural world. If you die of cancer and most don't, that is unfair. If most die from a plague, that is not unfair. Fairness is fundamentally about social ranking along any number of dimensions. The fact that we are so concerned with it demonstrates how easy it is for people to have wildly different outcomes in life.
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Old 07-20-2020, 05:15 PM
 
23,688 posts, read 9,375,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
I do not understand the obsession with “fairness” in our society. It pops up everywhere.
Yesterday the accounting personnel were complaining that it is not fair that the IT people can sometimes work at home while accounting people cannot. However the accounting people cannot do their job remotely, while the IT people can. Yes, it is not fair I suppose, but it is just the nature of the different roles. It is not about “fairness” it is about what works for the position you are in.

Lots of things are not fair. It is not fair that I had two somewhat healthy/caring parents while Billy in Detroit has a crack addict hooker for a mom and no dad. It is not fair that I had a mother with mental problems who was borderline abusive while Tim had well balanced emotionally committed and well to do parents who treated him well all the time but did not spoil him. It is not fair that I entered the legal profession at a time where talent, hard work and cleverness could still catapult you to the top quickly but now prospects for young lawyers are pretty dismal even if they are smart skilled, well educated and hard working. It is not fair that our field people get to be outside in the sun half the day, while our office workers are cooped up inside for 8-10 hours a day. Then it is not fair when the filed people have to work outside in extreme heat or cold while the office workers enjoy a climate controlled environment. It is not fair that all of us on CD have access to the internet while millions of people do not even have access to electricity, all depending on where they were born.

It is not fair that Americans who work so hard, know so much and have so much are basically unhappy while people living with three families in a grass hut, dirt floors and not medical treatment available are much happier?

From a Christian perspective is it fair that some people are raised in faith, and always believe and follow God and get to go live with him in heaven, while others maybe hear about Him one or twice in their lives never really understand him or believe and end up snuffed out or existing in torment for all eternity? Is God fair?

In a school system where we used to live, they had mostly bad schools, but some schools were designated “fundamental” schools. They taught only the core education tenants (fundamentals of education). Uniforms were kind of required, parents and students had to agree to meet certain standards for performance at school, homework, and parent volunteering. You had to camp out on a sidewalk in line to get in to those schools. On the plus side, it provided the mostly minority/impoverished population of the city a chance to attend good schools. Politicians decided it wa not fair that some kids got to go to much better schools than other kids. It was also not fair that the better students were grouped together where they could build off of each other. So, they dispersed the kids, teachers and administrators form the fundamental schools all over the distract. The bad schools did not improve at all, but the fundamental schools dropped down near the level of the bad schools. Politicians were happy – that was now more “fair.”

Why is everything supposed to be fair? By whose concept of fairness is the world supposed to function? How are things supposed to become “fair?”
no, life was never meant to be fair in my huble opinion.
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Old 07-20-2020, 05:40 PM
 
9,446 posts, read 6,575,697 times
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In regard to the accounting people in the OP, do you know for sure that it would be impossible for them to work at home? If most of their work is also on computers, like the IT people, it maybe it IS unfair and not simply envy etc. Maybe they aren't being treated equally.

This is an interesting thread with many thoughtful ideas.
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Old 07-20-2020, 07:17 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
8,481 posts, read 6,886,522 times
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So is there some supreme cosmic entity that imposes a fairness rule on humankind? Humanity is unstructured, random and chaotic. Surely you jest.
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