10-19-2010, 08:20 AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
4,511 posts, read
13,595,655 times
Reputation: 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HX_Guy
Can you guys expand a little more on the process of a short sale (as the seller)? What is this promissory note you guys are talking about?
You should consult with an attorney as to the all the legal ramifications of a short sale that may affect you in your state. Unfortunately, you may still end up on the hook for the difference of the loan amount and the sale price. The bank may ask for a promissory note that requires regular payments towards the defaulted amount, or some lower negotiated amount. They may also have the right for a
deficiency judgment for the difference. If possible, you should try to negotiate in your bank approval documentation that the bank considers the debt paid in full. If you are dealing with more than one lien holder, then the problem gets magnified.
10-19-2010, 09:09 AM
Location: Rural Michigan
6,341 posts, read
14,712,563 times
Reputation: 10550
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HX_Guy
Can you guys expand a little more on the process of a short sale (as the seller)? What is this promissory note you guys are talking about?
Some lenders will tuck a promissory note into the closing package - if you sign it, you're on the hook, even if they "agreed" to a short-sale. That's one reason to hire a lawyer to review anything you plan on signing. Lender's contract "addendums" are often
longer that the standard arizona purchase contract, and basically
gut it's protections for the buyer - even
well established ones, like unpaid leins.
If they're that hard on
buyers of these properties, I can only imagine what little
surprises they would tuck into a short-sale agreement.
RE agents
aren't lawyers, and they'll tell you how "experienced" they are and how much they "know", while handing
you a contract that's laced with
disclaimers regarding legal advice.
The truth is, there isn't any
mention of "short sales" in the Arizona Revised Statutes, specifically -
ARS § 33-729 (the "anti-deficiency" statute). Even if there
was language there, there was a court case in AZ with a VA loan where a deficiency judgement
was allowed , contrary to AZ law.
This is
untested territory, many
lawyers have disagreements on the value of a short-sale for a underwater borrower, even one
without a "promissory note". Remember, the lender
already has a promissory note for the original loan amount.
Personally, I wouldn't do a short-sale if
I was underwater. A trustee's sale gives you at least a
little protection under Arizona law - a short-sale
only gives you the protections
in the short-sale agreement , and lawyers make lots of money arguing what the definition of
"is" is. The people you're dealing with (the banks) have
no problems
forging documents, and
lying to judges to get what they want. Signing
one deal with the devil was an honest mistake. Signing
another deal with one of them is begging for trouble.
10-19-2010, 11:11 AM
419 posts, read
1,526,464 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HX_Guy
Can you guys expand a little more on the process of a short sale (as the seller)? What is this promissory note you guys are talking about?
We just completed our short sale. After about 60 days, since the offer was in line with the BPO, the "investor" accepted the price, but asked us to share in the loss, called "seller participation". They wanted a cash amount or $5K AND a promissory note for $15K over 10 years. The 10 year note makes no sense whatsoever if you won't be living there. What we did, and I recommend anyone does, is negotiate with a little cash and work upward to a point you're comfortable with. If your loan balance is still near $280K, you should expect the 'investor" to want at least a couple thousand from you to cover their $100K+ loss. We got out with $2500 cash on a ~$100K loss.
Good luck.
10-19-2010, 11:26 AM
3,819 posts, read
11,957,761 times
Reputation: 2748
Artvandelay: Thanks for the specific info...can I ask who your bank was? We are with Aurora Loan Services. They have told us the same "60 days" time period and the completed paperwork package was accepted by them last week.
10-19-2010, 11:33 AM
419 posts, read
1,526,464 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HX_Guy
Artvandelay: Thanks for the specific info...can I ask who your bank was? We are with Aurora Loan Services. They have told us the same "60 days" time period and the completed paperwork package was accepted by them last week.
Our bank was Wells Fargo, but I don't know who the "investor" was, but I believe a separate entity. The seller participation was not hidden in closing, but rather a condition of acceptance for the sale. After a couple negotiations, our last offer was $2500 cash and no note. This was accepted 2 days later, and additional paperwork ensued. After that, it was normal sales activity, with buyer inspection and appraisal. The documents I saw and signed prior to closing clearly outlined my obligation. If you have a 2nd mtg on the house, that can complicate the approval.
FYI, with the Mortgage Deft Relief Act of 2007, you will not be liable for the loss on the sale (or taxed on it), as long as it's your primary residence. For 2nd mtg, I don't know if and for how much you can be held responsible.
10-19-2010, 11:53 AM
3,819 posts, read
11,957,761 times
Reputation: 2748
There was a second mortgage at one time, but we actually negotiated it for 10% a while back when we were trying to work on a loan modification which subsequently got denied. So currently there is only the first mortgage with Aurora.
I've searched online and found multiple Aurora Loan "approval letters" and they all basically look identical, I haven't really found one that asked for any sort of seller contribution out of pocket. They all end with...
"If the short payoff amount is remitted to us, Aurora Loan Services will:
* File a 1099-C with the IRS
* Release your mortgage on the public records.
* Report the transaction to the credit bureaus as "PAID INFULL FOR LESS THAN THE FULL BALANCE."
Here are some examples...
http://www.360groupaz.com/pdf/aurora.pdf (broken link)
http://www.fresnoforeclosurehelp.org/upload/Bank%20Approval.pdf (broken link)
http://regencylm.com/approvals/aurora.pdf
This is the only one I have found that does mention a "seller contribution" but it says that it's included in the closing costs.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...GQwZADMJPydONQ
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House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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