Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
HX_Guy, I've seen the many instances, where developers came in and razed everything on a block to build something, but nothing ever came into fruition, especially in the north Central area as well as downtown. In some cases that was good because they got rid of old ugly buildings that didn't have any historic value, but in most cases, like you said, they left empty lots, which we still see to this day all over downtown and north Central, and I hope that's about to change now.
The northwest corners of Central & McDowell and Central & Thomas have been a perfect example of such instances. I know Trammel Crowe wanted to build a 52-story office tower on the northwest corner of Central & Thomas, but that never came to fruition for some reason.
There are conflicting goals with the (re)development of downtown Phoenix. The way I see it, the fundamental problem is we are trying to turn a place that at its peak was a small business center for a Des Moines, IA sized town into a full blown downtown for a Minneapolis, MN sized city. Our issues are totally different than most cities. Most cities are trying to revitalize and restore their old downtowns, which were once fairly big, vibrant areas but subsequently fell into disrepair. We're trying to create a bigger sized downtown than ever previously existed.
As it stands right now, the core of the CBD with the high rise buildings is a relatively small area, bounded roughly by Van Buren-Jefferson, and 1st Ave-3rd St area. Then there is the super-block, convention/stadium area to the east of that. Currently, with the ASU downtown campus and the biomedical center under construction, and with the existing Arizona Center, the area north of Van Buren between Central and 5th st is becoming more built up-- in much the same fashion as the whole superblock convention-center-ville. There's a strip of buildings along Washington leading towards the Capitol, and then there's a scattering of activity north along central Ave, like the Westward Ho, the Phoenix public library, Art Museum, Heard Museum-- all of which should have been built in the core downtown area, instead of spread out. Not to mention some of the tallest buildings in Phoenix with the city's most prestigious law firms and companies, located in the "Uptown area" on Central Ave, rather than in "Copper Square" itself. Basically, we have a real mess on our hands!
The other big problem is that "historic preservation" and "building up downtown," for this city, do not go hand and hand. Everytime a cool development project comes up, which would add a mass of people living downtown, whether it's ASU wanting to build dorms, or the Cityscape project, whiners complain about the city knocking down some crappy, squat looking, one story pile of junk, just because the rat hole happens to be 90 years old. The room that we actually have for expansion to do cool things, like Jackson St or the area between Van Buren and Roosevelt, will never get anywhere if the whiners want to museumize the area. Phoenix never was a "cool" city. Even in its heyday, it was barely on the national map. We need to build something new, not preserve the industrial "warehouse building" trash of the old.
You don't quite sound like one of those dreaded naysayers/NIMBYs that I've run across so much here ... however, your viewpoint on downtown redevelopment is still rather negative.
There is plenty of room to build upward ... perhaps not at Central and Adams, but plenty of room north and south of the city's core. For one thing, I have been against the ASU campus in central Phoenix. It was a bad idea right from the start. That area north of Van Buren is relatively low density, and SHOULD be reserved for highrise offices, housing, and hotels ... not a college campus. Otherwise, there are still plenty of vacant lots in between existing highrises in UPTOWN Phoenix along Central Avenue.
Magnum Mike correctly mentioned the skyscraper that was once proposed at Central & McDowell was never built, and the main reason was the opposition to the height. Now, there's even protest over CityScape. Some protectionist group is trying to save the dilapidatied dump known as Patriot's Park. Even the 39 story W Hotel is facing a lawsuit. Some Chinese group is claiming that the rat hole single story building which is currently there has some kind of historical Chinese history to it. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! These NIMBYs with their negative, anti progress attitudes are the reason why our skyline looks small for a city our size ... and it's also the reason why low density, cookie cutter sprawl is allowed to continue at a rapid fire pace.
You're right-- that's precisely what downtown Phoenix would need. Problem though, is where would all those restaurants and shops go? I've walked around downtown Phoenix a whole bunch of times, mainly out of curiosity, and dozens of blocks of the streetscape are already built out and ruined with inhospitable looking parking garages, walls, and rear entrances of buildings. The whole area by the stadiums, convention centers, and museums-- all of the big box stuff, is already FUBAR'ed forever, IMO. I don't see where there is any room for new construction that would allow small ground-level businesses in that area. There are two streets, Central and 1st Ave which already have a half dozen "restaurants"-- the kind of places which are only open from 11:00am-2:00pm M-F. I can see those places becoming upgraded to full time establishments. Where is all this new cool stuff going to go? The biggest hope I see is for the Cityscape project. The way I see it, that's the last chance for the compact CBD area with the tall buildings to really "work." Post continued next....
They said that about the South Loop in Chicago too - too many old buildings, too many empty lots, too many parking garages. Once the condos went in, several of them had retail space at their bases, several of the parking garages were replaced by small shops, and many of the lots were replaced with small buildings that accommodated a few businesses. No reason that can't happen in Phoenix.
Regarding the distinction between Downtown and Midtown (aka Uptown), it's hardly unusual for a major city to have both a classic downtown and a secondary high-rise district a few miles away. That's the case in New York, Houston, Los Angeles, Denver, and many other places. Once light rail is up and running on Central, the Downtown and Midtown areas will blend more seamlessly than ever before into one extended area. While it may be true that the classic downtown area was built for a city the size of Des Moines, the combination of Downtown and Midtown should be viewed in a positive light as providing critical mass for the city's urban core. The major museums, as well as the Burton Barr Central Library, will be located right in the center of it all as Downtown revitalization moves north to Roosevelt and beyond and as Midtown matures and expands to the south.
Regarding the distinction between Downtown and Midtown (aka Uptown), it's hardly unusual for a major city to have both a classic downtown and a secondary high-rise district a few miles away. That's the case in New York, Houston, Los Angeles, Denver, and many other places. Once light rail is up and running on Central, the Downtown and Midtown areas will blend more seamlessly than ever before into one extended area.
Let's hope so. I'm not a big fan of light rail, but I'm hoping that it will revitalize downtown Phoenix, as well as along north Central Avenue. It's disgusting to have all these empty lots in the central sections of Phoenix collecting trash & weeds, while flat cookie cutter sprawl continues with no apparent end in sight in the outlying areas of the Valley. Moreover, I'm really fed up with all the NIMBYs who continuously protest highrises for fear that it will block their views of the ugly brown mountains, or block out their sunshine that they can't seem to get enough of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbear
While it may be true that the classic downtown area was built for a city the size of Des Moines, the combination of Downtown and Midtown should be viewed in a positive light as providing critical mass for the city's urban core. The major museums, as well as the Burton Barr Central Library, will be located right in the center of it all as Downtown revitalization moves north to Roosevelt and beyond and as Midtown matures and expands to the south.
And in between should be more skyscrapers ... not just condos. There should be a mix of housing, hotels, and office buildings that rise 40, 50, and 60 stories tall. Contrary to the naysayers' paranoia, 50+ story buildings along Central Avenue won't be any danger to aircraft.
Also, your comparison of the size of downtown Phoenix to Des Moines raises some concern. You see, even though Des Moines may have fewer highrises than Phoenix, their tallest building is taller than Phoenix's Chase Tower. That's pretty embarrassing that a city of 200,000 has a skyscraper that exceeds the height of the tallest building in a city with 1.6 million population. Thank the NIMBYs for that too!
I purchased property in downtown Phoenix at 12th st. & Roosevelt sts.
It had 2 very poorly kept bungalows on it.
My husband thought me crazy because I wanted to restore them.
He was afraid of the neighborhood and of me going there alone.
The back guest house was wooden with a porch built in 1916.
The front home was stucco and I believe built in 1950.
Anyway, 2 1/2 years later I am done. WHEW!!
In the time I started the neighborhood has changed drastically.
New condos at 9th st. & Roosevelt are almost done, many homes have been renovated. The biggest thing I have noticed are the neighbors who were once wary of me always greet me with smile and a "hello".
I have walked to many places downtown & think this is an ideal place.
(I am from Phila, so having a porch and friendly neighbors appeals to me.)
I finally have convinced my husband (who is now thrilled with my gorgeous homes) to move there!
I can't wait to get out of our cookie cutter house to go somewhere I have thought for years is special.
The reason I have told you all of this is I have been told by many " I am crazy because it is far to dangerous in the downtown area."
Coming from a big city, I didn't see that central Phoenix was so bad.
Well, I sure am glad I didn't listen and went with my instincts.
I believe there is much History in the downtown area and soon I will be able to enjoy it on a daly basis.
I purchased property in downtown Phoenix at 12th st. & Roosevelt sts.
It had 2 very poorly kept bungalows on it.
My husband thought me crazy because I wanted to restore them.
He was afraid of the neighborhood and of me going there alone.
The back guest house was wooden with a porch built in 1916.
The front home was stucco and I believe built in 1950.
Anyway, 2 1/2 years later I am done. WHEW!!
In the time I started the neighborhood has changed drastically.
New condos at 9th st. & Roosevelt are almost done, many homes have been renovated. The biggest thing I have noticed are the neighbors who were once wary of me always greet me with smile and a "hello".
I have walked to many places downtown & think this is an ideal place.
(I am from Phila, so having a porch and friendly neighbors appeals to me.)
I finally have convinced my husband (who is now thrilled with my gorgeous homes) to move there!
I can't wait to get out of our cookie cutter house to go somewhere I have thought for years is special.
The reason I have told you all of this is I have been told by many " I am crazy because it is far to dangerous in the downtown area."
Coming from a big city, I didn't see that central Phoenix was so bad.
Well, I sure am glad I didn't listen and went with my instincts.
I believe there is much History in the downtown area and soon I will be able to enjoy it on a daly basis.
Congratulations and thank you. The Garfield neighborhood is looking nicer all the time. Just think of what could be accomplished if the energy wasted complaining in forums like this one were redirected toward positive projects like the one you have described.
Congratulations and thank you. The Garfield neighborhood is looking nicer all the time. Just think of what could be accomplished if the energy wasted complaining in forums like this one were redirected toward positive projects like the one you have described.
I so agree!!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
! 
! 
