Photo Radar complaint: is it valid? (Phoenix, Chandler: fit in, attorney, live)

[sgfernandez]

Hi everyone!

I received a photo radar "complaint" (it's not legally a ticket) in regards to a red light violation that occurred on April 7th in Chandler. I received it today, May 3rd, and the complaint was issued on May 1st. I read on several websites that the complaint must be mailed within 10 or 15 days from the date the violation occurred or it is void, but I can't find any confirmation of those claims in the Arizona State Legislature. However, on the Supreme Court of Arizona's website I found something saying:

Rule 42 of these rules has been amended (a notice of violation is void if its delivery is not initiated within ten days of the date of violation.) See below:
http://www.supreme.state.az.us/courtserv/rules/CVtraffic_detail.htm

My question is: is this complaint valid or void? If it's true that the notice of violation must be mailed within 10 days of the date of violation, it would be my understanding that it is void because they waited too long to mail it to me. However, I'm kind of confused as to whether or not that rule applies to my situation. Does anyone have any information regarding that?

I also found the following information (within the Arizona State Legislature):

A. Notwithstanding any other law, if a person receives a notice of violation in the mail for a violation of chapter 3, article 3 or 6 of this title or of a city or town ordinance for excessive speed or failure to obey a traffic control device that is obtained using a photo enforcement system, the person does not have to do either of the following:

1. Identify who is in the photo.

2. Respond to the notice of violation.

B. The notice of violation that is described in subsection A of this section must state the following:

1. The notice is not a court issued document and the recipient is under no obligation to identify the person or respond to the notice.

2. Failure to respond to the notice may result in official service that may result in an additional fee being levied.

C. For the purposes of this section:

1. "Notice of violation" means a notice issued by a photo enforcement company or municipality that is not a uniform traffic ticket or complaint.

2. "Photo enforcement system" has the same meaning prescribed in section 28-601.

I know that I am under no legal obligation to respond to the notice, and I know that if I am never personally served the ticket then I won't have to pay it. I would just like to know if any actual timeline exists that could work in my benefit in court in the event that I am served.

I appreciate the help!

[Kimballette]

Did you run the red light? If so, pay the ticket.

Otherwise, do a search of the Phoenix forums and you'll find a huge number of almost identical threads with people railing against the system and trying to weasel out of paying their tickets. For some, it's practically a hobby.

And if you want actual legal advice, an anonymous internet forum is no substitute for an attorney.

[sgfernandez]

Thanks for your advice, but it's not a ticket and I won't pay it unless I'm officially served with a ticket in person. State law gives me that right. Don't bother replying if you have nothing constructive to contribute.

[Kimballette]

Originally Posted by Kimballette

Did you run the red light? If so, pay the ticket.

Otherwise, do a search of the Phoenix forums and you'll find a huge number of almost identical threads with people railing against the system and trying to weasel out of paying their tickets. For some, it's practically a hobby.

And if you want actual legal advice, an anonymous internet forum is no substitute for an attorney.

Originally Posted by sgfernandez

Thanks for your advice, but it's not a ticket and I won't pay it unless I'm officially served with a ticket in person. State law gives me that right. Don't bother replying if you have nothing constructive to contribute.

Actually, my advice was constructive. I provided three valid courses of action. It just wasn't what you wanted to hear. Good luck in your search for an answer you agree with.

[Goober13]

The system has been proven to be a scam. When ordinary people stop being so stupid as to pay up for these corrupt camera tickets and know their legal rights, the remaining cameras in existence will be removed.

Speed cameras all over the country are being challenged, and many removed. The people running the system are preying on stupid by the book people following their laws to steal money. The camera companies have lobbied many cities and states to form these joint money extorting ventures. These tickets are very expensive and intimidating.

Given the grid nature of the streets here in the Phoenix metro, and the heavy existance of surface street traffic, all of us get in a position where we either stop or run the light. An opportunity for private business and municipalities to exploit citizens was formed as it was seen as lucrative. This country is becoming more and more like a police state, and it is up to average citizens to wake up and fight it.

I don't think a derogatory flame against a poster for getting a photo radar ticket is necessary. He only has 14 posts, and probably didn't know about the other thread. Merely letting him know about it without acting like he is a bad person for not being a good two shoes would have been sufficient.

In doing some searches on line, there are some articles about the legality of such tickets, and what to do or not to do to avoid admission of guilt. There are some services in Phoenix that will advice you as to what to do.

[Finger Laker]

Originally Posted by sgfernandez

Thanks for your advice, but it's not a ticket and I won't pay it unless I'm officially served with a ticket in person. State law gives me that right. Don't bother replying if you have nothing constructive to contribute.

Don't worry about her, some people love to give away due process to private companies ..... Maybe redflex was late getting yours out because of the investigations, change in leadership and corruption scandals going on........

I haven't heard of a time limit to send notice, although i think it's a fair question as to why our would take so long and why your case would skew from the norm

I know for a while you could find the redflex manual online and there were some dedicated websites they outline the process and your rights ..... I just haven't kept up with them since they junked them from the freeways and many munis also dropped the program ..... I rarely see one anymore

[Kimballette]

Originally Posted by Goober13

The system has been proven to be a scam. When ordinary people stop being so stupid as to pay up for these corrupt camera tickets and know their legal rights, the remaining cameras in existence will be removed.

Speed cameras all over the country are being challenged, and many removed. The people running the system are preying on stupid by the book people following their laws to steal money. The camera companies have lobbied many cities and states to form these joint money extorting ventures. These tickets are very expensive and intimidating.

Given the grid nature of the streets here in the Phoenix metro, and the heavy existance of surface street traffic, all of us get in a position where we either stop or run the light. An opportunity for private business and municipalities to exploit citizens was formed as it was seen as lucrative. This country is becoming more and more like a police state, and it is up to average citizens to wake up and fight it.

I don't think a derogatory flame against a poster for getting a photo radar ticket is necessary. He only has 14 posts, and probably didn't know about the other thread. Merely letting him know about it without acting like he is a bad person for not being a good two shoes would have been sufficient.

In doing some searches on line, there are some articles about the legality of such tickets, and what to do or not to do to avoid admission of guilt. There are some services in Phoenix that will advice you as to what to do.

Sorry. It was not a flame, and nothing I posted even remotely suggested he was "a bad person." He asked about photo radar himself here three years ago. https://www.city-data.com/forum/15357861-post1.html People are entitled to disagree with others' opinions on an internet forum. And I did so in a civil manner.

[Zeromus-X]

Originally Posted by Kimballette

Did you run the red light? If so, pay the ticket.

The people administering the fine need to play by the rules just as much as the person who made the alleged offense. If their terms say it must be sent in 10-15 days, and it wasn't, there's no reason to pay the ticket. If there was no time frame to abide by, they could literally just stockpile tickets up without you knowing and mail them to you as a batch. How would you like to receive two dozen speeding tickets, dating back to 2002, that you didn't know you had accrued, and face a several thousand dollar fine?

These safeguards are in place for a reason and I think it's totally responsible of someone to determine if the people running the cameras are playing fair.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by Goober13

The system has been proven to be a scam. When ordinary people stop being so stupid as to pay up for these corrupt camera tickets and know their legal rights, the remaining cameras in existence will be removed.

Can you elaborate on that? Other than receiving service of process, what other legal rights are there?

[AZBradley]

Originally Posted by Kimballette

Did you run the red light? If so, pay the ticket.

Otherwise, do a search of the Phoenix forums and you'll find a huge number of almost identical threads with people railing against the system and trying to weasel out of paying their tickets. For some, it's practically a hobby.

And if you want actual legal advice, an anonymous internet forum is no substitute for an attorney.

Palm to face