Watering Grass and Shrubs. Conflicting Advice and I Need Some Help. (Phoenix: foreclosure, how much)

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

I used 52 THOUSAND gallons of water in June. I found one of the problems (discussed below) and I just got another 30 THOUSAND gallon bill in July.

Background: I don't have a pool and I was in AZ for about 5 days in June and July. When I was in AZ last month I checked and I don't have any leaky valves. When I am away, water is turned off to the house (only the sprinklers have water) and the meter seems to be working properly. Meaning, the meter doesn't spin when nothing is on and the water seems to be measuring accurately.

One problem solved: I found out that the landscape guy beefed up the watering by clicking up the seasonal adjustment. He clicked 70% more (seasonal adjustment button) on top of the numbers that I inputted. That means that I watered 70% more than the amount I inputted on the timers.

My landscaping guy is telling me that I need to water my grass twice a day for 8 minutes (zone 1), and 10 minutes for the trees and shrubs once per day (zone 2 and zone 3). That is what I have inputted. Honestly, I think that is way too often. Even if I need that much, the math doesn't show how I could be using that much and here is why. If I assume I can get 12 gallons per minute (I think that is wishful thinking) my system is on on as follows:
Grass EVERYDAY (zone 1)==8 minutes (morning)+8 minutes (evening) or 5760 gallons per month.
Shrubs EVERYDAY (zone 2)==10 minutes (morning) or 3600 gallons per month.
Shrubs EVERYDAY (zone 3)==10 minutes (morning) or 3600 gallons month.


So I'm at 5760 (grass zone 1) + 3600 (shrubs zone 2) + 3600 (shrubs zone 3) ==12,960. I have NO idea how I am getting about triple this amount.

Even IF I had a leak after the valve (in the sprinkler lines) I cannot imagine I could get out more than 12 gallons per minute.

Independent of this mystery, I am getting HUGE variations from "experts" telling me how much water I really need. Some say I only need to water once per week in the summer all the way up to twice per day. For shrubs, people are saying once per day (10 minutes per time) to once every other day for 45 minutes at a time (and 10 minutes will push the roots to the surface). Some sites say I only need to water once per week. Talk about huge variations in opinions!

I'm thinking the problem is my timers are malfunctioning or it is still programmed wrong. But I need to tell the landscaping guy what I want. He has a strong opinion (the above times that I inputted) but I still think that is too much water.

Are their any experts out there??

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I used 52 THOUSAND gallons of water in June. I found one of the problems (discussed below) and I just got another 30 THOUSAND gallon bill in July.

Background: I don't have a pool and I was in AZ for about 5 days in June and July. When I was in AZ last month I checked and I don't have any leaky valves. When I am away, water is turned off to the house (only the sprinklers have water) and the meter seems to be working properly. Meaning, the meter doesn't spin when nothing is on and the water seems to be measuring accurately.

One problem solved: I found out that the landscape guy beefed up the watering by clicking up the seasonal adjustment. He clicked 70% more (seasonal adjustment button) on top of the numbers that I inputted. That means that I watered 70% more than the amount I inputted on the timers.

My landscaping guy is telling me that I need to water my grass twice a day for 8 minutes (zone 1), and 10 minutes for the trees and shrubs once per day (zone 2 and zone 3). That is what I have inputted. Honestly, I think that is way too often. Even if I need that much, the math doesn't show how I could be using that much and here is why. If I assume I can get 12 gallons per minute (I think that is wishful thinking) my system is on on as follows:
Grass EVERYDAY (zone 1)==8 minutes (morning)+8 minutes (evening) or 5760 gallons per month.
Shrubs EVERYDAY (zone 2)==10 minutes (morning) or 3600 gallons per month.
Shrubs EVERYDAY (zone 3)==10 minutes (morning) or 3600 gallons month.


So I'm at 5760 (grass zone 1) + 3600 (shrubs zone 2) + 3600 (shrubs zone 3) ==12,960. I have NO idea how I am getting about triple this amount.

Even IF I had a leak after the valve (in the sprinkler lines) I cannot imagine I could get out more than 12 gallons per minute.

Independent of this mystery, I am getting HUGE variations from "experts" telling me how much water I really need. Some say I only need to water once per week in the summer all the way up to twice per day. For shrubs, people are saying once per day (10 minutes per time) to once every other day for 45 minutes at a time (and 10 minutes will push the roots to the surface). Some sites say I only need to water once per week. Talk about huge variations in opinions!

I'm thinking the problem is my timers are malfunctioning or it is still programmed wrong. But I need to tell the landscaping guy what I want. He has a strong opinion (the above times that I inputted) but I still think that is too much water.

Are their any experts out there??

I'm no expert, just somebody who has had lawns in Phoenix for 30+ years, but everything that I have heard is that you should not water your lawn daily, that you it should be 2 or 3 times a week but for longer times. I have ours set up at 16 minutes, 3 days a week in the summer.

[LocoAZnative]

Also, water in around 4-5 am so you dont loose it all to evaporation in the day.

[slackjaw]

I think any shrubs you've got needing daily water probably shouldn't be planted in Phoenix, and twice per day for grass seems insane unless you are in the early stages of getting your winter grass to take.

Probably depends on what you've got but most of the common shrubs you see in the area like Texas sage, bird of paradise, fairy duster, oleander, etc. certainly don't need water every day.

[observer53]

Way too much water. Trees should be watered less often, for longer. Once a week for 20 minutes would be fine. I've never, in 26 years, set my shrubs for more than 3 times a week, 10 minutes each time. Most of my stuff is relatively low water use, well established. I don't have grass, but I would never water it daily. The advice to do the watering very early am (or very late evening, for that matter) is good, too.

[Montana Griz]

[quote=MN-Born-n-Raised;20174907]

...............................If I assume I can get 12 gallons per minute (I think that is wishful thinking) my system is on on as follows:
Grass EVERYDAY (zone 1)==8 minutes (morning)+8 minutes (evening) or 5760 gallons per month.
Shrubs EVERYDAY (zone 2)==10 minutes (morning) or 3600 gallons per month.
Shrubs EVERYDAY (zone 3)==10 minutes (morning) or 3600 gallons month.


So I'm at 5760 (grass zone 1) + 3600 (shrubs zone 2) + 3600 (shrubs zone 3) ==12,960. I have NO idea how I am getting about triple this amount...[end QUOTE from Mr Minnesota]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________


...........First things first:

The number of gallons per minute (and per month) you are using is dependent upon:
.....1/ the water pressure (in p.s.i.) in the main line servicing your irrigation system.
....2/ the number of sprinkler heads and emitters you have in the system,
AND, the amount of water EACH one dispenses PER MINUTE at: (say for example:65 psi). (I think most "city water lines going to houses" run at approx 65 psi.)
.....3/ How many minutes total you activate each dispensing head per month.

I'll give you an example of what I'm trying to convey:

Part of my system is at follows:

(5) "Rain_Bird" sprinkler heads with an orifice dia of (.120") dispense 44 gallons per minute at a constant inbound line pressure of 65 p.s.i.

Thus: 44 x 5 x 60(minutes) x 4 = 52800 gallons every 4 weeks....based on running the system for 1 hour every week.

Personally (IMHO)....your ASSUMPTION of "12 gpm" is "way off base"...............Just a guess on my part-----just a guess

Edit: Suggestionj: To satisfy your mind as to how much water your system is actually dispensing: Hire a Plumber to install a calibrated "Gallonage Meter" in the water line...immediately IN FRONT (UPSTREAM) of the beginning of your system............

Edit #2: Bye the way.....I certainly am NO expert.....(just have an opinion or two)......just an ole Montana boy (in his 80th year) who spends the better part of the winter season "bustin' a few of those AZ Quail" with my Brittany.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by LocoAZnative

Also, water in around 4-5 am so you dont loose it all to evaporation in the day.

I was told that watering often before sun-up can cause grass molds. You don't want to water often before sundown because it won't dry on the grass leaves (as it promotes lawn diseases) especially in warmer weather. I doubt people will have problems if they start at 4AM especially if they watered just a few times a week but I suspect it makes more sense to start the shrub zones 1st and follow with the grass zones last (to time it closer to 6AM when the sun can evaporate it from the grass leaves quicker). I do know that late evening (10PM) is a no-no.

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

but everything that I have heard is that you should not water your lawn daily, that you it should be 2 or 3 times a week but for longer times. I have ours set up at 16 minutes, 3 days a week in the summer.

I know this is true in MN. You want to water longer so that the the roots follow the water deep in the soil. If you water a short time too often, it pulls the roots higher to the surface. If you water a lot everyday, then the roots have no desire to follow the water down because the water is close to the surface.

But in AZ, the soil doesn't absorb the water like it does in MN. In fact if I water for 15 minutes, water is running off of of my lawn and into the street. So I figured the shorter durations was what made sense. In fact, every neighbor that I asked said they water twice a day for 7 minutes at a time. Yet AZ websites say to water every three days (see How Often To Water Phoenix Grass - Watering Schedule for Phoenix Summer Lawns )

I'm guessing my neighbors HAVE to water more often now because the roots are so close to the surface (because they water too often) and it will burn instantly if the cut it down dramatically. So I think I will gradually cut it back so the roots are forced to go lower. I don't want to cut it off cold turkey because we are in the hottest part of the year and I spent a small fortune on re-doing the entire lawn and shrubs (we bought a foreclosure).

Originally Posted by slackjaw

I think any shrubs you've got needing daily water probably shouldn't be planted in Phoenix, .

Agreed. I told that to the landscaping guy when he rattled off why I needed more water more often. I said let those ones die. I don't want to spend $200 a month and waste water to keep a few plants alive. That's insane. When I turned down the timers, I strongly predict he went over and cranked them up again. I suspect I need a new landscaping guy who listens to what I want. Part of this post is to get confirmation and gain confidence that he doesn't know as much as he might think.

Originally Posted by Montana Griz

The number of gallons per minute (and per month) you are using is dependent upon:
.....1/ the water pressure (in p.s.i.) in the main line servicing your irrigation system.
....2/ the number of sprinkler heads and emitters you have in the system,
AND, the amount of water EACH one dispenses PER MINUTE at: (say for example:65 psi). (I think most "city water lines going to houses" run at approx 65 psi.)
.....3/ How many minutes total you activate each dispensing head per month.


Personally (IMHO)....your ASSUMPTION of "12 gpm" is "way off base"...............Just a guess on my part-----just a guess

The suggestion of using a meter on the sprinkler water line is a good one. I'll see if I can have one installed.

I posted my guess of 12 GPM usage so that someone could check my math. When I return to AZ soon, I will re-do the physical calculations at the house myself. Here in MN, my PSI is around 70. If I turn the water on the hose full blast I can get out 14 gallons per minute. I do this calculation by using a 5 gallon bucket and setting it under a faucet. I do know I can take a shower while the sprinklers are on so I am not using up all of the gallons per minute that my main water system can source. So in my mind (which could be way off) I didn't think I would have a chance to source even 12 gallons per minute. But I will check that portion because my numbers are WAY off somewhere. But if I turned on the front, back, and side hoses full time I will have a maximum amount of water I can source independent of what sprinkler head size I use. I would be shocked if I could get out even 16 gallons per minute no mater what heads I use. If anybody knows more on that topic I would appreciate their opinion.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

I have concluded that watering AZ grass in the summer twice a day every day is too much no matter what my landscaper says or my neighbors suggest. I will start out by cutting it down to once a day every day and then cut it down to every other day next month.

Now for the shrubs, a landscaping service guy I just called to get a quote said "shrubs should be on for 45 minutes every three days. In fact he said it is bad to put it on for 15 minutes as it pushes the roots closer to the surface. To me, 45 minutes using a drip system is a ton.

I really am surprised that there is such a wide variation of opinions from landscape companies.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I have concluded that watering AZ grass in the summer twice a day every day is too much no matter what my landscaper says or my neighbors suggest. I will start out by cutting it down to once a day every day and then cut it down to every other day next month.

Now for the shrubs, a landscaping service guy I just called to get a quote said "shrubs should be on for 45 minutes every three days. In fact he said it is bad to put it on for 15 minutes as it pushes the roots closer to the surface. To me, 45 minutes using a drip system is a ton.

I really am surprised that there is such a wide variation of opinions from landscape companies.

I run my drip on the bushes for 30 min every other day for a total of 3 times a week. The shrubs only have one drip head each and seem to be happy with that unlike how it was set last summer and they were NOT happy at all.
You can get ideas about watering your lawn BUT they are only ideas, your performance may vary. I also been told that lawns react on about a months delay so what you do today won't really show up until next month unless it's real drastic like totally shutting off water.

[observer53]

45 minutes every three days, even with a low pressure "drip" system as opposed to bubblers is a LOT. I remember my sprinkler guy turning down the main valve on the sprinklers, so that I wouldn't have more water coming through than I really needed. So that "gallonage meter" would be interesting.