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Old 11-15-2011, 06:33 AM
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,069 posts, read 13,541,794 times
Reputation: 3855


Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post

Not when they drive under the speed limit in the left lanes, refuse to move over, don't use turn signals, and have no regard for those behind them. Those are not good driving habits.

If they drive 60 on a freeway in a posted speed zone of 65, they are just as much of a hazard (if not more so) than somebody who is exceeding the speed limit. Those who are unable or unwilling to keep up with the pace really need to stay in the right lane ... or better yet, off the freeway entirely if they are holding up the flow. This applies to anyone, not just snowbirds.
I'm a very defensive driver, in that I'm always aware of what is around me and behind me so I can maneuver when possible to prevent an accident.

Because of that, there are times when I won't use my turn signals on the freeway, and here's why.

If I'm in lane 1 and a car behind me is following too close, then my experience is that as soon as I put on my signals, that car speeds up. Then before my left wheels get into lane 2, that car has gotten beside me in lane 1. Now if a car in lane 3 is moving fast and decides to move into lane 2 without looking, I cannot pull back into lane 1 because of the impatient driver behind me now sharing my lane.

If the car moving into lane 2 from lane 3 didn't pull back, then there would be an accident. I've had that happen too many times, so I'm very selective about when I use my signal. If the car behind me is not too close, then I do use my signals.

I'm on the freeways quite a lot at different times of the day
all year round, and to me, the most dangerous drivers are those who are impatient, speeding faster than everyone else, cutting in and out of traffic, tailgating, impaired by alcohol or drugs, and the very dangerous driving texters'.

The big danger with tailgaters is they are too impatient and don't understand reaction time, or how long it takes to stop their vehicle.

I agree that driving 50 in the fast lane is dangerous, but that violation is not just done by snowbirds.

Just last week eastbound on 60 at 8 am, where almost every morning approaching the 101, traffic slows down (due to the 10 interchange ahead). I was in lane one and a woman in lane two cut over to lane one because lane two had slowed. As she cut over (too close behind the vehicle in lane one) that vehicle also slowed, so she rear ended him. She was not a snowbird. She was just a careless, impatient driver, who changed lanes impatiently without judging the speed of the lane she was moving into, and she moved over too close behind that car.

Yesterday, northbound on the 101 around Indian School at 10 am, a small pick up truck was driving in lane two at around 55. The flow was 65-70 in lanes 1,2,3. I couldn't pass right away because traffic in lanes 1 and 3 was too close together for me to move over. I maintained about 4 car lengths behind this guy, but the car behind me was tailgating me at around one length behind.

That truck in front of me, and the car tailgating me were not snowbirds, yet both of them were creating a hazard. Had the truck ahead of me slammed on his brakes, I would have been able to stop because I had proper distance, but the guy behind me would not. He would hit me before he could get his foot on the brakes.

When we finally passed the truck, my passenger looked over and said the guy appeared to be in "la-la land"; probably high on something.

This is not an unusual occurrence.
It's everyday life on the Phoenix freeways. Therefore, I think it's an unfair generalization to single out and imply that all snowbirds are dangerous on the freeways.

I have a lot of snowbird friends, some in their 50's, and some in their 70's. They're normal drivers and I feel safe with them driving. (And I'm one who is usually nervous when I'm not the driver.)

Consider how a more diverse economy would benefit you, Cap'n. Better paying jobs would bring an increase in people to the housing market who are more willing to invest and even pay higher prices. An economy dependent on retirement and seasonal tourism only provides a limited, short term benefit to the real estate sector & other areas of the economy.
I agree that Phoenix needs to attract more businesses, and I'm hoping all the local governments are doing just that. But currently, tourism and snowbirds are a large part of our economy and we need to embrace them rather than to unfairly criticize them.
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:50 AM
1,490 posts, read 3,108,331 times
Reputation: 2820
The snowbirds have every right to be here. I like the snowbirds. They have so many life stories to tell. Their experiences and insights are very interesting to me. Sure, there are those that just complain about thier ailments and such but for the most part, the snowbirds are fun loving, healthy and funny folks and I can only hope that I too will be in a position someday to enjoy the fruits of my labors.
I find it funny that many of you are bitching about the snowbirds being here yet you embrace people coming here illegally with no money whatsoever and you also want to allow these same people to suck off the system. Bringing drugs and crime with them. Taking free medical, free food, free schooling, basically getting a free ride off the backs of the working class.
Thier is no such problem with the snowbirds. They come here legally and they bring thier money with them.
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:31 AM
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
3,006 posts, read 5,516,792 times
Reputation: 2344
Perhaps the people that don't like snowbirds, and knowing that they come to AZ year after year in the winter, ought to consider permanent relocation themselves?
It's one of those things that is going to happen and has been happening for as long as I can remember. It's not going to change and complaining about it won't change anything.
With my service in military and chasing jobs around the country/world over the years I have lived in many communities. Some by choice and others because I had to.
None are perfect and if you hang around long enough you will find something to whine about.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:52 AM
1,478 posts, read 2,011,901 times
Reputation: 2523
I don't live there yet. I don't think I'd have an issue with snowbirds, except for one, my MIL is one LOL. But that's MILs for ya right I would not call her a snowbird though she is a snowbeast ha ha. Ooops I mean she is awesome. Yes. Cough.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:57 AM
46 posts, read 81,141 times
Reputation: 64
Originally Posted by AZJ0SH View Post
Who needs them? Not like half of them pay taxes in our state either way.
If they own property they pay taxes. Every time they buy something they pay taxes. And if they didn't come, half of the waitstaff that you are so concerned with getting viruses would be out of a job.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:00 AM
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
4,486 posts, read 15,836,935 times
Reputation: 4013
I once wrote a letter to the Governor insisting that Arizona should change it's state bird from the Cactus Wren to the Snowbird, never got a letter back...
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:37 AM
Status: "Take a walk" (set 9 hours ago)
10,444 posts, read 12,033,776 times
Reputation: 14896
Arizona's a snow bird state. You know that when you move here.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:58 AM
Location: Chandler, AZ
35 posts, read 52,942 times
Reputation: 28
The snowbird visa bill | Deseret News
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:41 AM
1,229 posts, read 3,495,066 times
Reputation: 677
The only gripe I have about snowbirds is that when in the valley, on 3 separate occasions, there was an out of state vehicle. On all 3 separate occasions these vehicles while driving down the highway, the first one threw out a lit cigarette. The other time the vehicle threw out a garbage bag on the highway and the 3rd time the vehicle was going 15 MPH below the speed limit while on the highway.

Could it be just coincidence? Sure. Yet some will see it as being inconsiderate because this is not their "home", they view them as tourists.

Not too many snowbirds up north in Prescott & Flagstaff but they do occasionally come up from the valley and visit for a day or two during winter.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:43 AM
287 posts, read 673,358 times
Reputation: 451
So a 7-8% increase just cripples the infrastructure and stagnates the lines to your local buffet?

For a conservative BILLION dollar increase, hopefully you can stand in line and not honk your horn too much.

May as well complain about the heat in the summer. You probably already do.
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