Chandler "vs" Surprise Highway #303

[S. Chris Webb]

Can't speak for Surprise-downtown commutes, but the 303 that has been completed, along with the new expansion of El Mirage Rd & Happy Valley Roads, makes my often-needed trek from far NW Phoenix to anywhere in Surprise quick and pleasant.

I can't wait for the 303 Fwy to be completed from Bell South to Goodyear. It will make my Goodyear trips much easier as well. I travel the 303 as it is quite often and seems progress is coming along nicely for its completion.

It is nice that Grand Ave (US 60) has had a lot of work done and some lights removed in recent years, but would be nice if similar improvements would be done in the Sun City / El Mirage areas. Light rail down the route would be fantastic - but that's probably just a pipe dream for near-future years.

[ibarrio]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

With all due respect, this is simply not true.

Grand avenue moves slow. It's a two lane street with stop lights. I commute to Del Webb 4-5 times per month and Grand is slow even during non-traffic times. With traffic, I've waited as long as 40 minutes to get from Grand/101 to Del Webb. From the 101 to Del Webb taking Grand is another 20 minutes at least so there is no way you can get from Surprise to downtown Phoenix in 35 minutes taking this route.

Chandler to Downtown is much closer even for Ocotillo residents than Surprise residents. The 202 to I-10 and I-10 to downtown is much faster than taking Grand to the 101 and then 101 south to I-10 and then I-10 to downtown...that is a much slower process. And we are talking about downtown, to the airport it's about 10 minutes closer. If I was concerned about commute times, I would never choose Surprise over Chandler, Chandler is much closer.

Furthermore, the AM traffic going west on I-10 relatively stops once you get past Broadway on I-10. A lot of the people who don't live in Chandler don't know this and see that I-10 traffic and assume it's like that all the way to downtown and it's not. Furthermore, some people may have lived in the Chandler area years ago and moved to the West Side, they also have a wrong perception because since the completion of the 202 and extension of the 101 south, a lot of the traffic on I-10 has improved and it's no longer bumper to bumper like it was in the first part of this decade. Sure, there is a lot of traffic and it can come to a stop but it will also quickly catch up and move, and it's only like that up to the 60 exchange and once you pass Broadway, it is nearly eliminated. And then you are going against traffic the rest of the way particularly if you take the 51 North (all the traffic heads south on the 51 in the morning). From Warner/I-10 to Union Hills/51, it takes me 35 minutes departing at 7:30 AM during height of traffic because once I'm past Broadway, I can comfortably drive 60 mph or more without interruption.

Dont know when the last time you used Grand but it is not 2 lanes. Construction is done and it is three lanes of traffic on each side. Only one speed camera light in El Mirage. I can get to Mesa (val vista) in less than an hour.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by ibarrio

I can get to Mesa (val vista) in less than an hour.

According to Google Maps, from the Bell Rd/Grand Intersection to U.S. Airways Center in Downtown, it's 33.7 miles and 53 minutes....without traffic. From the same location To Val Vista in Mesa, it is 54.2 miles and 70 minutes without traffic.

Compare that distance to Ocotillo (Southern Chandler) to Downtown Phoenix. From the Alma School/Queen Creek intersection to U.S. Airways in Downtown Phoenix, it's 23.5 miles and 35 minutes. From my house in North Chandler, it's 15 miles and 22 minutes.

Not to trying to beat a dead horse but I think we can all agree that Chandler is much closer to downtown than Surprise is to downtown. That isn't to say that Chandler is proximal to downtown but it is significantly closer than Surprise.

[swbrotha100]

Parts of Chandler border the Ahwatukee area of Phoenix. The border is at I-10.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

The 303 hiway is mostly a two lane road south of Surprise all the way to I10. To make matters worse it is heavily used by cement and gravel trucks and has traffic controls along its length. It is anything but a super highway. Eventually (years from now) it is supposedly going to be a freeway down past I-10 (in Goodyear) and then all the way to I 8.

Getting to central Phoenix from Surprise is an awful drive even in normal traffic as there is no easy way to do it. One choice is bad, another worse. This is the main knock on Surprise. Again, in time, things will improve, but it is going to be many years and in the construction phase things get much worse before they improve.

Chandler is not a walk in the park to downtown either during rush hour. But outside of that it is pretty stress free.

Chandler is the hands-down winner if commuting to downtown ranks high on your list. Surpise is a better choice if going to Las Vegas, Lake Pleasant or Flagstaff/Sedona etc is tops with you.

I drive 303 almost daily and to Phoenix on occasion. The worst part of the whole drive is always when we get to Phoenix, just watch the traffic reports in the morning, rarely will you see the highway (I10) stopped west of loop 101 or even near there.
I do frequently see that the 60 and 202 are stopped up with accidents so take that into account.

Currently loop 303 is on what I'd call the push before the final push to connect to I10. They're building all the over/underpasses and the flyover connection to I10 right now. Road is graded and pretty much ready for pavement from where the last expansion ended to Bell Rd, overpass is in at Waddell Rd and Cactus will be finished by December. Don't know how they're handling the others quite yet.
Currently the road moves along pretty well, average speeds are around 55 from Olive to I10 and if there's any backup there are 2 alternate roads to take that are usually empty.

[pcg]

Surprise is still a well kept secret. You dont have to go any where near Bell Rd. or Grand Ave. to get out of Surprise, depending on where you are at in Surprise. You can use Litchfield, or Dysart, take either one south to Olive or Northern (Northern is closed right now), then east to the the 101. From there it is smooth sailing all the way to the 10 most days. We are at Litchfield and Cactus, from home to the airport takes 35 minutes most days.

[swbrotha100]

From driving on Loop 303, it looks like it will be depressed from south of US 60/Grand Ave to south of Greenway Rd. It should be going over all the other major mile streets, then go under Thomas Rd, and there will be a mess of ramps around I-10 and Cotton Ln.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by swbrotha100

From driving on Loop 303, it looks like it will be depressed from south of US 60/Grand Ave to south of Greenway Rd. It should be going over all the other major mile streets, then go under Thomas Rd, and there will be a mess of ramps around I-10 and Cotton Ln.

Think of the flyover interchange at Loop 101 and I10, that's what it's supposed to be when done.