Phoenix Metropolitan Area - Census vs. Popular Definitions (Tucson, Chandler: live in, garden)

[Pink Jazz]

Officially, the Census Bureau defines the Phoenix Metropolitan Area as Maricopa County and Pinal County. However, it seems that the popular definition of the Phoenix Metropolitan Area is more restricted, as I don't think most people would consider Casa Grande a part of the Phoenix Metropolitan Area.

So, why is there a disparency between the Census definition and popular definitions? Should the Census Bureau change their definition of a Metropolitan Statistical Area?

[sh9730]

Well, it is tough....I mean where do you draw the line? Is Buckeye still part of the MSA? Its still in Maricopa County, but its just about as far from downtown Phoenix as Casa Grande (35 miles vs 40 miles). Gila Bend? Its still in Maricopa County, but clearly is not part of the MSA.

Even Surprise, eastern Gilbert and Queen Creek (all of which I would guess most people consider to be part of the MSA) are 30-35 miles to downtown PHX.

However, I will grant you that since there is the Gila River reservation break along I 10 between "the grid" and Casa Grande it definetely "feels" like it isnt part of the MSA like the other places.

But from a pure distance perspective its really not that far. I get from my place in northern CG to Ahwatukee/Chandler in 30 mins.

But same with some other areas - in San Diego they consider the entire county to be part of the MSA, even though some of the suburbs (eastern Oceanside, Fallbrook, Northern Escondido) are all close to 40 miles away...

[Ponderosa]

I feel Casa Grande is part of the metro area. This once agricultural town is now a bedroom community for the Phoenix area. It grew because of Phoenix and its residents commute to Phoenix for work for the most part. The new parts look like any other suburb in the metro. The only reason there is not wall to wall housing between Ahwatukee and CG is the rez is in the way. For statistical inference, at least, CG is very much part of the metro.

[observer53]

I'd be surprised if it considers ALL of Pinal County to be part of metro Phoenix. That said, what the Census Bureau considers metro Phoenix, and what is considered metro Phoenix in other contexts, are likely never going to be the same. I'm just not sure it matters all that much what the census thinks metro Phoenix is.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by observer53

I'd be surprised if it considers ALL of Pinal County to be part of metro Phoenix. That said, what the Census Bureau considers metro Phoenix, and what is considered metro Phoenix in other contexts, are likely never going to be the same. I'm just not sure it matters all that much what the census thinks metro Phoenix is.

Yes, the Census Bureau considers all of Pinal County to be part of the Phoenix Metrpolitan Statistical Area. Counties are never partially in an MSA; it is either the entire county or none of it.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by sh9730

Well, it is tough....I mean where do you draw the line? Is Buckeye still part of the MSA? Its still in Maricopa County, but its just about as far from downtown Phoenix as Casa Grande (35 miles vs 40 miles). Gila Bend? Its still in Maricopa County, but clearly is not part of the MSA.

Casa Grande is not 35 miles from Downtown Phoenix. Google Maps has Casa Grande listed at 49.6 miles from U.S. Airways Arena to the Olive Garden in Casa Grande off exit 194. Buckeye is 37 miles to the same location in Downtown Phoenix. It takes me 35 minutes from Chandler(exit 159) to exit 194 on I-10 so there is no way it takes you 35 minutes to downtown Phoenix considering it takes me 22 minutes to downtown Phoenix. I agree that it is difficult to what constitutes the Phoenix metro but a safe description is to include Maricopa county with some flexibility to include some communities on the border of Maricopa county such as Queen Creek which exists in both Maricopa and Pinal. I definitely don't consider Casa Grande to be a part of the Phoenix metropolitan area considering it's roughly 30 miles from the south Chandler which is near the southern most point of the Valley.

Originally Posted by Andros 1337

Yes, the Census Bureau considers all of Pinal County to be part of the Phoenix Metrpolitan Statistical Area. Counties are never partially in an MSA; it is either the entire county or none of it.

That's not what Observer means. Yes, it includes the entire Pinal county in it's definition because parts of Queen Creek are in Pinal county so it had to include the entire county by definition but that doesn't mean all of Pinal County is considered to be a part of the Phoenix Metropolitan area. Eloy is in Pinal, most people would not consider Eloy to be a part of the Phoenix metro. Parts of Marana is in Pinal County which is distinctly considered to be a Tucson suburb, are you going to say Marana is a part of the Phoenix metro too because it's technically in Pinal? When it takes 26 miles of empty highway from near the southern border of Maricopa County (Sun Lakes) to Casa Grande, Casa Grande can't be considered to be a part of the Valley. I have nothing against Casa Grande but I live in Chandler and drive to Casa Grande fairly routinely and it is really far from the rest of the Valley and is most certainly not a part of the Valley.

Originally Posted by observer53

I'd be surprised if it considers ALL of Pinal County to be part of metro Phoenix. That said, what the Census Bureau considers metro Phoenix, and what is considered metro Phoenix in other contexts, are likely never going to be the same. I'm just not sure it matters all that much what the census thinks metro Phoenix is.

I agree, I think some common sense needs to be applied when defining the Phoenix metropolitan area. To strictly include everything in Maricopa and Pinal makes little sense. I don't consider Gila Bend to be a part of the Valley any more than I do Casa Grande but if anything it's much more accurate to say Maricopa makes up the Valley than to say Maricopa and Pinal County. It would be one thing if the area between Chandler and Casa Grande was developed and it adjoined the two, then you could argue it is part of the Valley but when there is 26 miles of emptiness between the two, I don't see how anyone could consider that to be a part of the Valley.

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I feel Casa Grande is part of the metro area. This once agricultural town is now a bedroom community for the Phoenix area. It grew because of Phoenix and its residents commute to Phoenix for work for the most part. The new parts look like any other suburb in the metro. The only reason there is not wall to wall housing between Ahwatukee and CG is the rez is in the way. For statistical inference, at least, CG is very much part of the metro.

People from Casa Grande also commute to Tucson for work but obviously the majority of them commute to the Valley. And while the reservation may impede development from the Valley to Casa Grande, it is what it is. You can't say it's part of the Phoenix metro when there is over 25 miles of no development between the two areas, that's a pretty large gap. If there was development between the two areas, I would agree with you and include Casa Grande to be included in the Valley.

[sh9730]

AZRIVER,

I dont have any heartache with anything you wrote except for a small point - I was saying that CASA GRANDE was 40 miles away whereas Buckeye was 35 miles in my original response.

Also, whereas from Exit 194 may be 49 miles to downtown, MUCH of CG (including myself) is much further north than exit 194 and even closer to exit 185.......which is a big difference.

And then finally, I said I get from my place in northern CG (again closer to exits 190 and 185) to AHWATUKEE/CHANDLER in 35 mins. Not downtown.

Otherwise much of your post I agree with....

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Andros 1337

Yes, the Census Bureau considers all of Pinal County to be part of the Phoenix Metrpolitan Statistical Area. Counties are never partially in an MSA; it is either the entire county or none of it.

If that's true, it makes NO practical sense in real life. Pinal County extends down well into southeast AZ, not all that far from Tucson. Oracle, or Mammoth, or even Kearny, are in metro Phoenix for "statistical" purposes? None that make much sense. So, I care even less what the census says metro Phoenix is.

[sh9730]

Although MSA's are important as it comes to funding from gov't entities etc., beyond that they mean little. The point was they had to draw lines SOMEWHERE, and they didnt want to have way more MSA's then they already have. SO, as a result, some areas fall into MSA's that dont make 100% sense.

Again, I pointed out that the San Diego MSA includes the entire county....but noone would consider Borrego Springs as part of San Diego really...

They are just lines....

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by observer53

If that's true, it makes NO practical sense in real life. Pinal County extends down well into southeast AZ, not all that far from Tucson. Oracle, or Mammoth, or even Kearny, are in metro Phoenix for "statistical" purposes? None that make much sense. So, I care even less what the census says metro Phoenix is.

Pinal goes west too. I just don't feel all that "metro" when passing through Ajo, but there you go. If poster above is correct and the census does not split counties, that would explain things. In the east they have tiny little counties while in Arizona, many of our counties are larger than many eastern states in area.

The boundaries have consequences too. Phoenix metro gets a black eye with EPA and the press for air quality problems at a gauge in the feedlots of distant parts of Pinal county because Pinal, including the feedlots, is metro Phoenix.