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Agreed. Good desert landscaping has much more curb appeal to me than a grass lawn.
Not so much the "all gravel and one saguaro" that I see in a lot of yards, but any decent desert landscaped yard looks better than bermuda grass.
The modern decorative landscape with desert and grasslawn combined is very attractive if done the right way.
The problem is that kind of design doesn't allow for very many shadetrees that I like, they really help make it a little more pleasant to be outdoors in the summertime.
Even without much grass, the watering expense just for non-native trees and shrubbery can be pretty steep here.
It comes down to paying more for keeping shade, or saving money by not having shade and roasting more when the hot weather comes, take your pick I guess.
I would like to add that the Phoenix metro area is fine as far as water is concerned. There was a book called "bird on fire" that just came out that talks about the sustainability of phoenix (water included) and you would think the sky was falling. To get to the point there are lots of people who have no idea what they are talking about.
The problem is, many of them DO know what they're talking about.
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SRP has been planning for water consuption for over 50 years and central Arizona is in better shape with its water supplies then boston or NYC.
In terms of aging infrastructure, maybe. In terms of supply, NYC and Boston are infinitely better situated than any city in the desert.
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So to put things in perspective central AZ has plenty of water comming in, even if the water was not comming in it has plenty of reserves and is in better shape then cities that recieve a lot more rainfall. Las Vegas and Tuscon did not plan while Phoenix did and you will see the problems for Tuscon and Vegas in the comming years. Bottom line. Am I concerned there is little rainfall? Not at all.
You should be, especially if it keeps up.
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FYI It does not mean to be wasteful though. So many property owners plant grass and plants that take tons of water as if we are living in Kansas.
If you have "plenty of water," why worry? Keep them golf courses green!!
The modern decorative landscape with desert and grasslawn combined is very attractive if done the right way.
The problem is that kind of design doesn't allow for very many shadetrees that I like, they really help make it a little more pleasant to be outdoors in the summertime.
Even without much grass, the watering expense just for non-native trees and shrubbery can be pretty steep here.
It comes down to paying more for keeping shade, or saving money by not having shade and roasting more when the hot weather comes, take your pick I guess.
That's true. My yard isn't really xeriscape. I've got a drip system going to a lot of stuff. It doesn't use nearly as much water as turf would, but I do have to turn it on every now and then.
I prefer desert landscaping, but if people want grass, they should get grass. If water becomes an issue, they can always restrict sprinkler use.
I had to travel to Lubbock TX last year during the drought. You could definitely see the effects of their watering ban. Nearly every lawn was brown & dead.
What bothers me is when people say how cheap it is to live here compared to other large metropolitan areas.
People with pools, grass, and shadetrees soon find out it's not so cheap when the water bills are factored in.
Absolutely! When it's dry, everything demands more water: plants, trees, grass, pets, and humans. We all drink more because our systems demand it more often. Moisture is essential for survival. Plants, trees, and grass need to be watered more frequently, and pools need to be filled more often because of the higher evaporation rate.
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Originally Posted by Java Jolt
They say Phoenix grew so rapidly because of weather like this, ample sunshine, nice temperatures in the winter, and lack of rain and snow.
Unfortunately, that's true ... but I've always said that moving to Phoenix mainly for the sunny climate is ridiculous. It's on the same level as moving to San Francisco for the fog, Seattle for the drizzle, or Buffalo for the snow. People should be wanting to move to a large city for important reasons like jobs first and foremost, as well as good neighborhoods, and other amenties that make up a great city. Weather & climate might be factored in, but it shouldn't be the most important reason. Hell, if I wanted to move somewhere only because it's sunny most of the time with little rain & nice winter temperatures, I could just as easily go to Death Valley.
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Originally Posted by Java Jolt
I would prefer it not be so dry too but we are pretty lucky considering the heavy snow, flooding, and tornadoes in other parts of the country.
Good point when you compare it to other places that are experiencing inclement weather right now. The thing to remember is extreme weather of any kind, or the same type of weather all the time is not good. Variety and moderation are always the best.
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Originally Posted by stephen431
I prefer desert landscaping, but if people want grass, they should get grass. If water becomes an issue, they can always restrict sprinkler use.
Yep, that was what I was trying to get across earlier. These newer developments that are mostly rock & desert landscape with little grass or shade are not attractive to everybody. Different strokes for different folks. Some prefer desert landscape, and others like the cooling effect of leafy trees & a lush green lawn. It shouldn't be so restrictive like it is ... especially when people claim how we're in great shape with water supplies, and few are concerned about the lack of moisture lately. I say that if there's nothing to be concerned about, anybody should be able to plant whatever they choose.
We've considered putting in a grey-water system. Arizona has a decent tax credit for that. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense that I'm using purified drinking water to pour on the ground. I know our RO filter is sending gallons of potable water down the drain.
The only problem is that even though grey water systems are not very expensive, water is still so cheap here that it'll take 10 years or more before it pays itself off. It's the same issue with other water savers like pool covers and hot water recirculators.
I may go ahead and get one of those hot water circulation pumps. I've got 2 sinks in the house that can take minutes to heat up. I remember Scottsdale had a rebate for those, but last I checked Phoenix doesn't.
We've considered putting in a grey-water system. Arizona has a decent tax credit for that. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense that I'm using purified drinking water to pour on the ground. I know our RO filter is sending gallons of potable water down the drain.
The only problem is that even though grey water systems are not very expensive, water is still so cheap here that it'll take 10 years or more before it pays itself off. It's the same issue with other water savers like pool covers and hot water recirculators.
I may go ahead and get one of those hot water circulation pumps. I've got 2 sinks in the house that can take minutes to heat up. I remember Scottsdale had a rebate for those, but last I checked Phoenix doesn't.
Recirc pumps are relatively inexpensive to buy... perhaps it's the installation that makes for the $$$. I'm going to get one, too... the kitchen in my house is a LONG way from the water heater. I hate seeing all that water disappear, even though it is cheaper than it should be in this desert. I'll feel better saving that water, whether it makes much of a dent in my water bill or not.
Recirc pumps are relatively inexpensive to buy... perhaps it's the installation that makes for the $$$.
The pumps themselves are only around $200-$400. Installation gets pricey if you're installing a return line. If you use your cold water line as the return, you could probably install it yourself.
I have some oddities with my house where I'll probably need a return line. I have an RO filter under the kitchen sink where I would likely install the loop and if I use a cold water return, I'll get heated water going into my drinking water tank. Cold water returns can cause some waste at that sink because you'll have to run the cold water until it gets cold. It also means hot water will get drawn into the cold line whenever someone flushes a toilet or does a cold water load of laundry.
I'm also trying to figure out why the sink and shower in our master bath, which are pretty close to the hot water tank, are the faucets that take the longest in the house to heat up. The previous owner built a guest house/workshop in the backyard and I'm wondering if he somehow diverted the hot water out to that building and looped it through the backyard to get to our bathroom. I realize that would make no sense, but neither does the 3 extra minutes it takes to draw hot water to our master shower & sink from a hot water tank that's only 25 ft away.
Another concern is if you want the kind of pump that operates on a thermostat instead of a timer (or 24/7), you may need a power outlet under or near your sink. If you're installing at the kitchen sink and have a disposal, you're all set there.
My sinuses are loving it. This time of year is usually when my hayfever goes nuts. Everyone around me is complaining of their allergies, but whatever I'm allergic to, the lack of rain appears to be keeping in check.
It depends on the individual. Some people are bothered by dust and all the other irritants that result when it's so dry .... and others by the ragweed, mold, and certain pollen after a long wet spell. Funny that I hardly ever get colds or have problems with allergies after a wet winter ... but all the wind in the last week (along with the bone dry conditions) have caused my sinuses to flare up, and my throat is dry & raspy.
Fire danger is also high with these winds thanks to the unusually dry conditions over the past couple of months. Red flag warnings have already been issued, and it is way too early for that. Reminds me of May or June, only with cooler temps. Let's put it this way: unless we start getting moisture soon, I'm expecting an earlier start to the fire season ... and it could last longer than usual if this dry trend continues. Last year's fire season was one of the worst on record due to the preceding dry winter, as well as the windy conditions last spring & early summer.
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Originally Posted by stephen431
I'm also trying to figure out why the sink and shower in our master bath, which are pretty close to the hot water tank, are the faucets that take the longest in the house to heat up. The previous owner built a guest house/workshop in the backyard and I'm wondering if he somehow diverted the hot water out to that building and looped it through the backyard to get to our bathroom. I realize that would make no sense, but neither does the 3 extra minutes it takes to draw hot water to our master shower & sink from a hot water tank that's only 25 ft away.
It does sound like the pipes could be looped. It should never take that long for tap water to heat up when the faucet is that close to the water heater. The only other issue might be a faulty water heater. They usually give warning signs when there is an issue, such as lack of hot water, etc. It could also be just a bad thermostat in the tank.
Last edited by Valley Native; 03-03-2012 at 04:17 PM..
I'm not concerned. We've had dry years before, wet years before (about three, IIRC since 2000), normal years, cold winters, and the current warm dry winter. Where I worked on the east coast, this winter was warmer compared to the previous one (temps down into the 20s in that part of the SE).
I lived in California and recall the drought of the 1970s, followed by the record rainfall in the early 80s.
As for the deserts, it really doesn't matter much unless you are a woodland creature. It will be tough for them if March stays dry. In fact, the fire danger is lessened significantly in dry years as there are no wildflowers and few grasses that come up.
Really?
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A wind-whipped brush fire west of Buckeye increased to 1,000 acres, but was 25 percent contained around 11:30 Wednesday morning, according to the Bureau of Land Management’s Twitter page.
Crews on Wednesday were still battling winds that whipped the fire from 20 acres then to 250 acres along the bottom of the Gila riverbed Tuesday afternoon and evening.
The fire started burning in Arlington about 1:30 p.m. Tuesday and was aptly named the Arlington Fire.
Brush fire now at 1,000 acres in Arlington | News-ON Phoenix (http://phoenix-on.us/2012/03/07/brush-fire-now-at-1000-acres-in-arlington/ - broken link)
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