Private vs. public vs. charter schools- E. Valley (Phoenix, Tucson: neighborhood, top schools)

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by PoppySead

I didn't think the reservations counted in our school districts statistics?

Well, I know that the portion of the Gila River Indian Reservation in Maricopa County is considered part of the Kyrene School District. Not sure about the other reservations.

[Skywayy2001]

I think it's all who you talk to. I have quite a few friends with kids in the PV and Kyrene districts and they have complained a lot in the past year (budget cuts, too many kids in the classes, etc.). That being said, a large number of charter and private schools are so new that it's hard to gage if they are any good at all at this point. Private schools such as Phoenix Country Day, Brophy and Xavier are definitely great schools, but not cheap.

[ReadyFreddy]

I'm not sure how they count the reservations. I know there are res. areas that feed into Mesa schools. When I look at the schools' 'report cards' they seem to be doing well until you average in test results from certain populations, like the ESL students.

But I'd rather have my kid in school with a realistic cross section of the city's population, including some res. and native Spanish speaking kids, than in an all-white, all-affluent, private school. There's more to education than academics.

[breakingbad]

Thank you all for your replies...for some reason I didn't see any replies and never checked again until tonight...I am still trying to figure out where to live and will continue to research. Thanks!

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by ReadyFreddy

I don't think you can compare a state to a state. AZ has a lot of reservation land, Spanish speaking immigrants/aliens, rural areas, etc. When you average all of AZ and compare it to say all of Connecticut, it's apples and oranges. It also matters a lot what's being ranked. I see AZ ranked low based on things like "emphasis on science". There are going to be varying emphases. You can't emphasize everything, by definition. Some think $/student or students per teacher are good indicators. I'm not so sure how much you spend or how many teachers you have really says it all. And each school district is different, and each school within it.

Well said. I don't have a lot of respect for people who judge Valley schools based on our state statistics. There are a lot of amazing schools in the Valley and if you haven't found one for your child, it's clear you are not very resourceful and you haven't given a lot of effort because they are clearly there. There are plenty of internet resources like greatschools that can help one locate a great school. Some people just enjoy complaining and not acting.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by ReadyFreddy

I'm not in that area, but in Mesa, but I chose the public schools. Mesa has a gifted program (for qualifying students) that is plenty challenging, and Mesa Academy for even more challenge. I had heard charter schools were held to lower standards, in many respects. It's been a while since I explored options, though. I wouldn't pay for private when good/great public options exist. But I'm not a fan of the 'basics/3 R's/rote memorization' emphasis schools. I'd prefer a more arts & tech oriented approach, basically the opposite of the 'basics'. The specialty schools out here seem to favor that 'basics' approach.

Charter schools are hit or miss. A lot of charter schools were created by parents who were sick of mediocre public schools and didn't want to put their kids in those public and created these amazing charter schools are equal to if not exceed private schools in some cases. However, you also have the strip mall half a$#% charter school that looks like someone created it over the weekend so you have to be careful.

[stephen431]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Well said. I don't have a lot of respect for people who judge Valley schools based on our state statistics. There are a lot of amazing schools in the Valley and if you haven't found one for your child, it's clear you are not very resourceful and you haven't given a lot of effort because they are clearly there. There are plenty of internet resources like greatschools that can help one locate a great school. Some people just enjoy complaining and not acting.

There's no problem comparing state to state. Especially considering how Arizona funds public schools primarily at the state level. One good thing about Arizona is they publish a lot of school data, and you can drill down into individual school performance all the way down to subject by grade level and AYP. Parents who do their research know this and the demand for the better public schools is incredibly high. Open enrollments at those schools have waiting lists.

You can't just judge based on school district. It's helpful, but all valley school districts gerrymander their school boundaries in ways to keep higher property value homes separated from the lower property value homes (for Title I funding.. and other reasons). This means the districts usually have at least one or two really lousy schools, and hopefully one or two very good schools. Keep in mind that most of our schools measure below average when compared nationally in areas such as college preparation, math, reading, science, graduation rates, AYP, etc. so you want to make sure your kids are attending your district's top schools and not one of their "average" .

Here's a tip... Go through the school district's board meeting minutes and see which schools are getting the most Title II fund disbursements. Next, check the schools PTO boards and see which ones are full (have no vacancies). Those schools are the ones that the district school board are making sure has the better teachers.

Charters are very hit or miss out here. There are some really exceptional ones, but for every excellent charter, there are probably 5 or 6 awful ones. One of the charter elementary schools near my home is amazing (the principal attends our church), but there are 4 others nearby that are the "strip-mall" variety where the students appear to be struggling with even basic literacy.

I've looked into a few of the private schools, but I've only known parents who sent their kids to Tesseract, Brophy, Phoenix Country Day, or Pardes. Parents raved about all of them.

[azriverfan.]

The reality is no school is going to make your kid successful. Granted you need to send them to a good school but that means YOU also have to be involved with their education. If you examine successful students, most of the time, you will see they have great parents meaning parents who are involved and spend time with their kids. I don't believe in the concept that you can just drop a kid off at a school and everything is taken care of....even at the best schools. In fact, I think parental involvement is more important than the school itself.

You don't have to send your child to the very best school if you are actively involved in your child's education. I've known plenty of Harvard kids who went to average to above average schools but they had great parents and the kids were motivated and self disciplined which counts for a lot more than sending your kid to the very best school. I've known kids who have went to the best schools in the country meaning the boarding prep schools that are 25K -30K per year and those kids have gotten involved with drugs and made nothing of their lives.

I think parents get too preoccupied with selecting schools and if they spent that energy being directly involved in their child's education, their children would benefit more. I'm not advocating sending your child to a bad school but a lot of times we are talking slight to any difference when we compare excellent schools with one another. Instead that focus should be on "What more can I do to be involved and make certain they are on track"

[stephen431]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

I don't believe in the concept that you can just drop a kid off at a school and everything is taken care of....even at the best schools. In fact, I think parental involvement is more important than the school itself.

Parental involvement is very important, but your kids are going to be spending about 7 hours a day in school, 180 days a year, for 12+ years. They can spend that time with good teachers, or not-so-good teachers. Then you'll know whether you can focus your parental involvement on more advanced subjects, extracurricular activities, or spend your time helping to make up for low-quality schools.

There are some decent schools here, and a few excellent ones. I know some people suggest that our entire school system stinks, but it's not true. You just have to put in the work to find the good ones.

[ReadyFreddy]

Here's a tip... Go through the school district's board meeting minutes and see which schools are getting the most Title II fund disbursements.

Are those federal funds, and you suggest they're being diverted to the better schools? I went through the last year of Mesa minutes and didn't find that info. Any further tips? I always want more indicators.