What's so bad about "suburban sprawl"? (Phoenix, Pima: 2013, buyers)

[ReadyFreddy]

go ahead and continue enjoying it but you should at least try to see things from a different perspective.

I have plenty of formal education in economics and real estate. There's no 'right' way. Some prefer cities, some prefer suburbs. That's why both exist and why both have inhabitants. I've lived in both. I prefer this model. I see the advantages to each.

[jdahunt]

I've had the the opportunity to spend a considerable amount of time in a lot of different metro areas....Chicago, New York, LA, Detroit, Atlanta, Houston, Twin Cities, Las Vegas and San Fran to name a few.

We looked at the western Phoenix suburbs, didn't want to come out of my drive way and feel like I was in rush hour traffic already...Surprise was a good fit for that.

We also wanted to be in a place that we could access some pro sport teams, have a plethora of nice restuarants and of course most importantly a warm climate.

The political, taxes, and personal freedoms issues also played their roles but we won't discuss that here.

In some of those mentioned above people are fleeing them in droves.....I think that speaks volumes for what people really think.

[khuntrevor]

I've lived in places with a 94 walk score, and I've lived in places with a zero walkscore Moderator cut: snip. The scenery at the "zero" was 360 degree incredible. It was like Wild Kingdom in the back yard. I'll take the 94 place any day, and the main reason is people dramatically underestimate the cost of driving one mile. Gas is still only part of it. The IRS doesn't say 56 cents per mile, because it wants less revenue. Between daycare costs and driving expense, a lot of people are paying to work.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by stasi_crystals

So far on every thread I've seen on Phoenix and vicinity, the ones that bash Phoenix always use "suburban sprawl" as a negative for Arizona. So why is this "suburban sprawl" such a bad thing that puts Phoenix at the top of everyones 'worst cities to live' list? In my opinion it's the solution to congestion, were not packed in like sardines as in other cities. What are your thoughts on this?

Suburban sprawl does not relieve congestion by any means ... in fact, it actually has a way of increasing congestion and spreading it out more to the suburban areas. L.A. is a good example of what happened when a city/metro area is built on outward growth. They thought putting in freeways all over the place would allow people to zip back & forth, but it actually made traffic problems worse. Here in Phoenix, traffic is not quite as bad as the L.A. area, but it has gotten worse over the years to the point where rush hour has started earlier & ended later. More freeways have eased things a little compared to what they were 20+ years ago, but when most everybody uses the freeways, traffic congestion still becomes a nightmare.

Also, with the way gas prices are, there is a trend to not want to have to commute a considerable distance. Granted, not all of the work centers & activities are in downtown Phoenix, but most are still centrally located enough (Tempe, Scottsdale, etc.) to where people in distant suburbia have a long way to drive. Besides, not everybody likes to drive. Some prefer to walk, bike, or use transit. Some prefer to live close to their jobs to save on gas and wear & tear on their vehicles. Some still prefer to live out in the sprawling cookie cutter suburbs. Different strokes for different folks. Not everybody who lives in the Phoenix area wants one way of life. A metro area with over four million residents is going to offer some diversity in lifestyle preferences.

Suburban sprawl was the way to go after WWII, but things have changed a lot since the 1950s. Lately, more and more people are wanting a shorter drive time, and to be more centrally located. Even in the Phoenix forum, there are a fair share of topics started by would be newcomers who want a more centralized location. Since a good share of Phoenix's growth occurred after WWII, and is highly suburban in that regard, it is taking a while to become more centralized, but it occurring slowly but surely.

[Howard Roark]

I will get flamed for this, but those who do not want long commutes should avoid buying any real estate. Keep at most a year lease on an apartment. So if you work at Boeing in Mesa but see a great opportunity at Honeywell and switch, you just go to the end of your lease and then get a new apartment at your new job.

I do this on a large scale, since I work in various cities for a few months at a time. Occasionally have to break a lease. Far less costly than putting a burden up for sale. Bonus is that the money is good by commuting by air.

[Zathras]

Originally Posted by deckard9080

I grew up in PHX and now I live in Seattle. The sprawl is horrible because it basically makes PHX a bunch of disconnected strip malls with cookie cutter homes in between. Biking/walking to places is hard. You have to drive everywhere which is not fun. In cities like Seattle and NYC you can walk just about anywhere or take a quick bus/ferry ride. There is also a concern about water resources in PHX. How much larger can it grow? I guess suburban sprawl isn't the worst thing to happen, but living in a compact dense city is preferred, at least in my humble opinion.

My humble opinion differs a bit. I just returned this afternoon from a weekend in Hollywood visiting my daughter and I much prefer the spread out metro area here than that compact dense city. They have too many people packed into too small of a space. The sprawl of Phoenix is fantastic in comparison.

There are 4 million people here- they don't all live in cookie cutter homes!

And I don't believe there are any concerns for water resources here.

[sh9730]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Also, with the way gas prices are, there is a trend to not want to have to commute a considerable distance.

While I agree somewhat with this statement, I believe this has always been the case, even when gas was less expensive people's time was also valuable to them.

However, many other factors always come into play - family size (which may be getting smaller, but that is a different thread), schools, amenities for children (not as many little leagues in the urban cores) etc, along with (what I believe) is still the desire for single family home ownership, many people will still "drive til you qualify". Granted, the prices of late have allowed many to be closer in to the work centers, but if (I actually believe when) that changes, the sprawl will begin again.

Also, though GREAT strides are still a ways off, transportation technology is improving, both in the automobile (gas mileage is much better today than even 10 years ago), and public transportation. Combined with telecommute options improving, I think these factors will also allow for building further out from the cultural and employment cores.

Count me in as one of those that prefer the yard and space that come with living in the burbs. However, I wouldnt mind if more of the "Verrado" communities were built (no I dont live there) to sort of allow the best of both worlds - a little bit of community center, but space as well.

[khuntrevor]

there are very few places where the traffic has improved over the last 10 year.

[ReadyFreddy]

I used to drive to work from Mesa to downtown, when the 202 ended at McClintock. Now I telecommute but driving downtown (or about anywhere) is much easier, plus there are now light rail and park & ride options that didn't exist then. The 101 back then was like 2 miles long out here for the longest time.

[Aleking]

Originally Posted by maverick974

Well, I'm sorry you're having a hard time getting out of Atlanta. I can't speak with authority about Atlanta because I've never been close to there.
Here in Phoenix, there are some fairly sizable mountain ranges to the east and north of the Phoenix valley. It rains much more in those mountains than here in the valley. That water flows down the mountains and is held in several lakes around here.
Bartlett, Horseshoe, Pleasant, Saguaro, Canyon, Apache, Roosevelt, San Carlos and several others that I can't think of off the top of my head.
There is ample water here.
In addition to the water held in the lakes, there is one of the largest underground aquafiers in the world below our feet that has yet to be tapped. So yes, it doesn't rain much in the valley of the sun but there is ample (so far) rainfall that is held as reserve.
Even though there is enough water for the current needs of the valley, most people still conserve by having natural landscaped yards that require little to no watering other than the rainfall we get naturally. Much of the water on resorts, golf courses, etc. is recycled and used again
Phoenix has it's problems but so far, water is NOT one of them.

this couldn't be more wrong