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Old 12-19-2011, 11:04 AM
 
895 posts, read 1,417,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi60 View Post
There are no super natural skills involved in selling/buying a home so there is no reason to pay high dollar when a lawyer will charge you a fraction of what the sales people do. A fool and his money are easily separated.
And therein lies your problem. During the boom years of real estate in Phoenix, agents were making money hand over fist. So every Scottsdale Bimbo who was living on alimony and had no education ran out to get her license so she could sleep in until noon and still make her 2pm spa appointment.

Entering a house in the MLS was not rocket science, and sitting at an open house if you looked like a plastic barbie actually worked out pretty well. And no super natural skills were involved, so we ended up with a lot of bimbo realtors.

So now every realtor on the planet feels they deserve that extra commission or fee, but 9 out of 10 realtors also agree that 9 out of 10 realtors suck.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,069 posts, read 14,246,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi60 View Post
...
Also, always use an independent inspector and appraiser as they don't have a financial interest in the outcome...
If a buyer is paying cash, they don't need to have an appraisal. It is a good idea to have one if they re unsure of the value. However, if they are unsure of the value, then perhaps they should not have made a purchase offer. In order to make the purchase contingent on the appraisal, that would have to be written into the contract. In the cash deal, the buyer can hire their own appraiser.

If the buyer is getting a mortgage
, the mortgage company will require that there be an appraisal, and the purchase will be contingent on the home appraising for the purchase price so the buyer can obtain financing in the manner spelled out in the contract .

However, the buyer does not have a choice in appraisers. There were new rules put in place by Fannie, Freddie and FHA so that the mortgage company cannot choose the appraiser either. They order the appraisal through a third party.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Victoria Woods, CA
464 posts, read 797,131 times
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Thanks for all the responses. We've bought and sold homes previously with no issues whatsoever concerning the Limited Dual Agent as we understand they are simply doing the paperwork. We approached the Seller's agent and she is to write up the offer, which has already been verbally accepted by her Seller, as they are friends.

This has started to become very convoluted though as inconsistencies are starting to arise where there should be none. It is a traditional sale.

I requested the Seller's Disclosure as the pool repairman was scheduled to repair a crack in the pool the day I viewed the property and cracks with the house and garage floor led me to question expansive soil movement as it is a hillside home. The agent told me we would not be able to see this disclosure until we actually signed on the dotted line, which I understand as technically and legally they do not HAVE TO until within 5 days after signing. Upon speaking to my husband, she said that the seller has lost it but they will do a new one...and they're charging US administrative fees for their apparent misplacement as we've never ever listed a property without having the agent having ALL...ALL documents signed and received. Really???? Over the years we've freely given and received the disclosures prior to signing so this raises a red flag as it simply discloses what the seller knows of the property and the agent is telling my husband that the seller really doesn't know anything about it anyway....and yet it is custom built by the husband, where they lived and raised 3 children over 30 yrs.....????

The BAC was just slipped in over the weekend. Does the realtor have to present our written offer if we refuse the BAC charge? We've never encountered this as a Buyer, or Seller for that matter, and the agent is starting to get annoying with "I'm a VERY fair person" thing as we all know that if you must say it rather than show it...you are not what you say.....
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Tempe, Arizona
4,511 posts, read 13,103,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makeitagreatday View Post
Thanks for all the responses. We've bought and sold homes previously with no issues whatsoever concerning the Limited Dual Agent ...
There's always a first time.... Sounds like having your own agent in this situation may have been beneficial to deal with these issues.

Have you spoken to the agent's broker? Maybe that would clear up some of your concerns.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Victoria Woods, CA
464 posts, read 797,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrcm View Post
There's always a first time.... Sounds like having your own agent in this situation may have been beneficial to deal with these issues.

Have you spoken to the agent's broker? Maybe that would clear up some of your concerns.
The agent IS the Associate Broker. Also, the agent told me from the get go that our offer would never have been accepted if we brought in an agent (as we do not have one but are beginning to feel that this agent is not at all neutral or ethical) and reiterated that to my husband yesterday. The Seller has verbally accepted our offer from the get go and in this scenario the agent has soured a pleasant transaction with the BAC...enough to lose a viable interested Buyer for her Seller...simply due to the realtor's greed.

Last edited by makeitagreatday; 12-19-2011 at 12:29 PM..
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Tempe, Arizona
4,511 posts, read 13,103,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makeitagreatday View Post
The agent IS the Associate Broker. ...
They may be an "associate broker", but are they the Designated or Managing Broker for their office? There's a huge difference. Any agent can qualify for an associate broker's license without having management responsibilities.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Victoria Woods, CA
464 posts, read 797,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrcm View Post
They may be an "associate broker", but are they the Designated or Managing Broker for their office? There's a huge difference. Any agent can qualify for an associate broker's license without having management responsibilities.
Not sure...I will look into today. Getting off CD for now as my husband and I agree that we will not...not pay an estimated $695 (or TBD) BAC...and not sure if the agent will even present the Seller with the written offer then which is wild and wacky as the Seller is good with our offer and according to the agent "is depressed and just trying to move forward after her husband died".

Thanks and I will update tonight.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,069 posts, read 14,246,246 times
Reputation: 3874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi60 View Post
...Also, always use an independent inspector and appraiser as they don't have a financial interest in the outcome.
I know the OP, or the new poster did not mention inspections, but since it has been mentioned, and discussed, I feel the need to dispel some of the myths that I've seen from time to time throughout the forum.

  • MYTH 1:
  • Inspectors will short cut their inspections to please the buyers agent.
  • MYTH 2:
  • Realtors hire inspectors who will short cut their inspections.
  • MYTH 3:
  • Home Inspectors who do a good job are "deal killers"
MYTH 1: Inspectors will short cut their inspections to please the buyers agent.

Buyers have the right to choose any inspector they wish, and as many inspectors as they deem necessary for the home they're buying. The Home Inspector is always hired by the Buyer, and the buyer is the Home Inspectors client.

The question becomes: If the buyer does not want the Realtor to refer a home inspector, then how do they choose one? Do they look on the internet and pick out a name, or do they have a friend who used an inspector, (but may not really know how competent the inspector was).

If they trust their Realtor
, then why not ask the Realtor for a referral?

If they don't trust their Realtor to refer a reliable inspector, then they should not be working with that Realtor. They should be working with someone they can trust.

Home Inspectors of all types, including Pest Inspectors are licensed, and they owe their duty to the Buyer. They do not owe anything to the Realtor, the seller, or the sellers agent.

The Home Inspector has guidelines to follow in performing inspections, and if anyone feels their inspector is not following those guidelines then they should be reported to BTR - Board of Technical Registration.

If one has proof of an inspector short cutting his/her duties and not reporting items that should be reported on the home inspection report, then they should report that inspector. They should not be degrading the home inspection profession by accusing them of getting into bed with Realtors to the detriment of the client.

MYTH 2: Realtors want inspectors who will short cut their inspections.

This couldn't be further from the truth. The Buyers Agent is working in the best interest of his/her client and wants the buyer to learn everything they can about their new home. The Realtor also has the responsibility to look for red flags in a home. They are not inspectors and are not expected to inspect, but they must look for obvious red flags and point them out to the buyer.

None of the Realtors I associate with would refer an inspector and try to get them to take shortcuts. If there are some Realtors who would do that, and if there are inspectors that would do that, they will get caught eventually, and will suffer the consequences. Just as there are some incompetent, careless and dishonest doctors, lawyers, accountants, and other professions, I realize there are also some bad eggs in the real estate industry.

But one cannot make a general statement that lumps everyone into one mold.

When a client asks me about the home inspections I tell them they can choose anyone they wish. If they want a referral, I give them the name of the people that I am familiar with and who have proven to me that they are proficient, thorough, and honest. Those are my prime criteria for inspectors. If one takes a short cut and I find out about it (and that has happened once when an inspector was paid extra to inspect the pool, and I saw that he did not watch the pop up clean outs) I never use them again. (I'm at all the home inspections, so I do see much of what the inspector is doing)

Beyond that, if I refer them to a lot of business, I expect them to be flexible in scheduling so that if I have a quick escrow on a cash purchase, I expect them to get my buyer into their schedule so as to not cause a delay in the escrow.

So, if home inspectors want my referrals, they must be:
  • honest,
  • proficient,
  • thorough, and
  • flexible, and have
  • patience with my buyers
    when they ask questions, or if the buyer wants to follow them around the house during the inspection.

MYTH 3: Home Inspectors who do a good job are "deal killers".

That is a real misconception. Home inspectors do not kill deals. They report and explain their findings to the Buyer. That is all they do.

If a deal is killed, it is either killed by the Buyer, or the Seller, or possibly both.

The seller, in a Traditional sale that is not sold in "As Is" condition, warrants that they will maintain and repair all
  • Heating,
  • Cooling,
  • Mechanical,
  • Plumbing,
  • Electrical Systems, including
  • Swimming Pool and/or Spa, Motors, Filter Systems, Cleaning Systems and Heaters, if any,
  • Range/Oven
  • Built In Appliances.
That does not include outdoor sprinkler systems or accent lights.

For warranted items above, the seller is obligated to repair them, or the buyer can issue a 3-day Cure Period Notice before declaring a Breach of Contract, and seek the Remedies in Section 7; or cancel the contract.

For all Non-Warrantied Items, the Seller has no obligation to repair them.

Here's where deals fall apart:

A buyer goes through the inspection report and wants "everything" repaired, even cosmetic items, even though the seller has agreed to a bargain price. They are buying a used home, but expect it to be in mint condition, which is unreasonable unless they are paying a "mint condition price"; and that is usually not the case.

The buyers must look at the list of items and weigh them against the price they paid for the home, and the risk of losing the deal if they request too much and the seller refuses to repair them.

The buyer can ask for any repair they want, but the seller can refuse any non-warrantied item and not be in breach of contract.

The buyer has the option of cancelling the contract within the due diligence period if the seller will not repair warrantied, or non-warrantied items.

The seller can kill the deal
, if they have gotten a good price for the home and refuse to repair some of the non-warrantied items that are reasonable, including cracked roof tiles.

It is the Realtors job to see that the inspection is thorough, and to educate the Buyer as to the procedure stated in the contract and the BINSR, and discuss the alternatives available to both buyer and seller.

The Buyer then makes the decision on what to ask for in the BINSR, and the Seller will decide how to respond. If everyone understands the value of the property, the nature of the repairs needed, and the BINSR procedures and alternatives, then the deal should continue on with both sides being happy with the outcome.

If the deal gets killed, it's on the buyer or the seller; not the home inspector.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,069 posts, read 14,246,246 times
Reputation: 3874
Quote:
Originally Posted by makeitagreatday View Post
The agent IS the Associate Broker. Also, the agent told me from the get go that our offer would never have been accepted if we brought in an agent (as we do not have one but are beginning to feel that this agent is not at all neutral or ethical) and reiterated that to my husband yesterday. The Seller has verbally accepted our offer from the get go and in this scenario the agent has soured a pleasant transaction with the BAC...enough to lose a viable interested Buyer for her Seller...simply due to the realtor's greed.
As rjrcm indicated, an Associate Broker is not the Designated Broker. The Designated Broker is the Broker responsible for the agents.

An Associate Broker is an agent who has a Brokers license but chooses to only work as an agent.

The Verbal Agreement is worth the paper it is not written on. Neither the buyer nor the seller have to honor a verbal agreement. However, if the agent presented a verbal offer to the seller, which is not a good idea in my opinion, and the seller agreed to the terms, I don't see why they would not agree to it in writing.

Also, the agent is required to submit all written offers to the seller unless the seller has issued written instructions to not present offers with certain terms to them.

I would not present a verbal offer to my client, because it is not a valid offer. In my opinion, if the buyer and buyers agent is serious, they will put it in writing.

In one post you stated:..."Oh no, no...she is the SELLER'S agent and is just writing up our offer. We have no agent so she is already dipping into the pot twice."

I doubt if you have information as to how the agent is being paid, since that is a confidential contract between the seller and the listing agent; so you don't know that she is "dipping into the pot twice".

I'm still confused
as to whether you are an Unrepresented Buyer, or if you and the seller have signed a Limited Dual Agency Agreement. Since there is no written contract yet, it appears that a Dual Agency has not been established, and at this point you're still an Unrepresented Buyer.

Usually, if a seller agrees to allow the sellers agent to become a dual agent, then the total commission amount is reduced. That is only fair because the fiduciary duties to the seller have been diluted.

Here's an example
:
The seller agrees to pay the listing agent 3%, plus 3% to the buyers agent. If the seller is agreeable to dual agency, then there is probably a statement in the listing agreement with words to this effect: If the listing agent handles both sides of the transaction, the total commission is reduced from 6% to 4% with that 4% going to the listing agent.

The listing agent, by working as a dual agent, is taking on more work, and more legal risk; and if this is the agreement with the seller (as is typical) then the agent would be receiving 3% for working as the listing agent, and 1% for doing the buyers agent work. A total of 4%.

You also stated: ...the agent told me from the get go that our offer would never have been accepted if we brought in an agent

This would indicate to me that the verbal offer that the seller said they will accept is at their bottom line. If the commission agreement that I gave in an example is what their contract is, then that 2% is making the difference. She may be telling you that with your offer, where the seller would have needed to pay 6%, wouldn't fly, but they can work with it if they only pay 4%.

The answer may be completely different, but sometimes that's the case.

You're correct, the seller has 5 days after contract acceptance to produce the SPDS.

I don't know if anything I've written has been of help to you. Those of us who are Realtors and Brokers here could not advise you on any terms of the contract because we are not allowed to if we are not an agent in the transaction. So our information has to be general.

I'm not going to advise you to use a buyers agent for several reasons:
  1. You obviously don't feel you need one, and don't want one, and that is your right.
  2. Since you have been working with the listing agent, that may bring Procuring Cause into play. Therefore, if you were to talk to another Realtor about working with you as buyers agent, you would need to inform him/her of the details, because with procuring cause s/he may not get paid by the seller; and if you fail to disclose the history, then you may have to pay him/her out of your pocket. So you must disclose that you've been working with the listing agent.
  3. I believe at this point you should consult with a Real Estate attorney because there are so many things going on.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Tempe, Arizona
4,511 posts, read 13,103,908 times
Reputation: 2200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
...This would indicate to me that the verbal offer that the seller said they will accept is at their bottom line. If the commission agreement that I gave in an example is what their contract is, then that 2% is making the difference. She may be telling you that with your offer, where the seller would have needed to pay 6%, wouldn't fly, but they can work with it if they only pay 4%.

The answer may be completely different, but sometimes that's the case....
That was my thought too, that the seller was getting a commission discount without another agent involved. But, as you said, could be different issues involved we don't know about.
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