Father shouldn't be driving (living, drivers license, drivers)

[urbex]

Originally Posted by 43north87west

He can buy another car without a driver's license.

Very true - private party deal comes to mind as an easy road to that. I've also found that with certain 3rd party MVD places you can also get a valid license plate without a driver's license. I've also been able to get insurance without a valid license.

[Kimballette]

Originally Posted by MarianR

Thanks for all of the suggestions. The family has had the "you shouldn't be driving, we'll be happy to take you anywhere" conversation MANY times. And the younger family members have medical problems that prohibit them from sitting and watching the car.
It sounds to me like all they can do is have him declared incompetent - how long will that take and how much does it cost? Or is there any agency in Sun City that will help?

Why on earth would he be declared incompetent? Certainly, driving without a license is wrong, and he's a danger on the road, but that's poor judgment, not mental incompetence. Losing your license to drive is often considered a devastating blow to one's dignity. The entire situation is a mess, but I sure hope his family's not considering having him declared mentally incompetent in lieu of more sensible and loving options.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by MarianR

Thanks for all of the suggestions. The family has had the "you shouldn't be driving, we'll be happy to take you anywhere" conversation MANY times. And the younger family members have medical problems that prohibit them from sitting and watching the car.
It sounds to me like all they can do is have him declared incompetent - how long will that take and how much does it cost? Or is there any agency in Sun City that will help?

If you really cant get through to him with a serious chat, then perhaps talk to the neighbors & let them know he shouldnt be driving. They have a lot better chance of seeing him leave the garage.

I also like the idea of parking an extra car behind his in the driveway.. although, if he's as grumpy as my grandpa was, he might have it towed.

[Goober13]

It is very difficult dealing with an elderly parent who obviously suffers from dementia and is stubborn to boot.

I know first hand about this as I have undergone about 4 years of living hell with my elderly mother. Her lawyer and caregiver used undue influence on her to get her to disown me and the lawyer had me arrested for trying to use force to correct the situation. I am just over the last few months gaining control again.

Elderly people panic at losing control of their lives which involves loss of driving privileges and the control of their finances. They can become quite belligerent when obstructed, and can engage lawyers and outsiders to disown family members, get protection orders against family, and the family can be arrested for interference.

Does family live with this elderly man? The only hope is to confiscate the vehicle and make sure no car keys of any family members cars are left lying around. And make sure the elderly man has NO contact with attorneys, that no outside caregivers are left around him where he could change wills, Powers of Attorney, etc. And WHEN he becomes belligerent, contact a geriatric social worker or elder care mediator, to try to neutralize the situation between this confused man and his family. Family needs to be around this man at all times.

If this becomes a legal matter, the courts are not sympathetic to family members. family members can lose their entire inheritance, and even be falsely reported to APS if unscrupulous lawyers and caregivers get involved. You do not want to get the system involved.

[TiredOfyycCold]

I think you might be reading into this based on your own situation Goober13.

I'm sorry that you have to deal with an elderly mother with dementia... certainly not an easy situation and I don't envy you at all, but no where in the OP's post do I detect that this man is demented... in fact he sounds quite the opposite.

I think the OP suggested the potential of having him declared "incompetent" just based on his stubborn refusal to stop driving. It doesn't sound like he's confused at all, just unwilling to give up his car even though he no longer has a license or insurance. If he was confused, it would be easy enough to get the keys away from him and it doesn't sound like that is the case.

Speaking to your experience... you must realize that elder abuse is a LARGE problem in both Canada and the US. It's not that the legal system is not sympathetic to family members, it's that they are in place to protect the rights of an individual and to ensure that they aren't being taken advantage of or abused. This happens far to often with senior citizens and unfortunately it's not just unscrupulous lawyers and outside caregivers that are the perpetrators, more commonly it is the person's immediate family.
Not every parent leaves their assets to their children and they are in no way obligated to. I always encourage my parents to spend their money before they die... they earned it after all. I will be happiest if I receive nothing - but that's just me.

[Goober13]

Originally Posted by TiredOfyycCold

I think you might be reading into this based on your own situation Goober13.

I'm sorry that you have to deal with an elderly mother with dementia... certainly not an easy situation and I don't envy you at all, but no where in the OP's post do I detect that this man is demented... in fact he sounds quite the opposite.

I think the OP suggested the potential of having him declared "incompetent" just based on his stubborn refusal to stop driving. It doesn't sound like he's confused at all, just unwilling to give up his car even though he no longer has a license or insurance. If he was confused, it would be easy enough to get the keys away from him and it doesn't sound like that is the case.

Speaking to your experience... you must realize that elder abuse is a LARGE problem in both Canada and the US. It's not that the legal system is not sympathetic to family members, it's that they are in place to protect the rights of an individual and to ensure that they aren't being taken advantage of or abused. This happens far to often with senior citizens and unfortunately it's not just unscrupulous lawyers and outside caregivers that are the perpetrators, more commonly it is the person's immediate family.
Not every parent leaves their assets to their children and they are in no way obligated to. I always encourage my parents to spend their money before they die... they earned it after all. I will be happiest if I receive nothing - but that's just me.

I'm not reading anything into this. I am more experienced in this type of matter than most average people. You seem like you are part of the system.

Ordinary citizens are ignorant to what I am saying. Sometimes I hate posting on here because it many times involves an argument. I think you need to Google Steal this Estate so you really know what I am talking about. And the Family Blame Game. How about reading the E book "When the old Block Chips".

A large majority ofg people over age 85 are demented to some degree. Their reasoning abilities have been altered as well as short term memory. Why do you think a man who is 94 years old with no drivers license or insurance, who knows he is feeble and has had numerous fender benders, continues to drive? Because his reasoning ability is not 100% anymore.

Confused elders can be the hardest type to deal with. They really believe they can care for themselves. And depending on if they have a toxic personality and have always been argumentative in the past, plays a big role in their level of compliance when it is time for the children to run the show. This man is obviously hard headed.

A demented individual who feels his independence is being threatened ie having his children take his car keys away and thus oversee and control his life, which is what is needed when these people behave irrationally, will become agitated and is likely to take extremes against his children to regain his control. It happens every day. To the point where he won't want them around, and he could try and disown them and get them out of his life. At that point he is vulnerable to unscrupulous lawyers (there are a lot of them) who will for a fee build a case against the children, and allow him to self destruct all in the sake of money. The elderly person doesn't have to be a millionaire. A mediocre nest egg will do, plus he probably owns his home.

This man has to be stopped by his children, and that will cause anger. Dealing with the anger of a demented elderly person is a very delicate issue, and people trained in this type of mediation need to be used quickly to avert a bad situation.

Anyone who allows him to drive and run his own life will be his "new friend", and these people exploit the elderly knowing that the children need to be in control, but see an opening to steal.

All this talk about the biggest elder thieves is children is BS. The children are entitled to their inheritances, not some person off the street. And the children care more about the welfare of their elderly parent than someone off the street as well. Some sibling rivalry may occur in some families. In my case I have no siblings.

If you would feel happiest if you received no inheritance you are a rare breed, because most wealth in this country is transferred through inheritance.

[PhureeKeeper]

MarianR, I've been through the same thing with both my parents in the past year. It is TOUGH to get them to stop driving, and there's not much you can do about it. I haven't found a "form" that someone fills out to declare someone incompetent. I've just been told they would have to go to DMV on their own volition and be tested.

Someone needs to accompany your 94 year old relative to one of his doctor's appointments and let the doctor be the bad guy. "Mr. Smith, you shouldn't be driving, you are frail, your reflexes are slow and your vision is compromised. You could get in an accident and hurt yourself and potentially others." The frank talk coming from an impartial 3rd party helped.

[Kimballette]

The only thing adult children should be entitled to is their parent's love. Period.

I agree with Tired that there's no mention in the o/p's post that the person has dementia. Your personal experience, while tragic, does not necessarily correlate to what's going on here.

I suggest the o/p call the Sheriff's Department and social service agencies (specializing in elder care) for advice.

[Kimballette]

Originally Posted by PhureeKeeper

Someone needs to accompany your 94 year old relative to one of his doctor's appointments and let the doctor be the bad guy. "Mr. Smith, you shouldn't be driving, you are frail, your reflexes are slow and your vision is compromised. You could get in an accident and hurt yourself and potentially others." The frank talk coming from an impartial 3rd party helped.

Another great suggestion.

[Goober13]

Having someone declared incompetent is not an easy matter. It involves psychological testing and most likely Probate Court, which is over $600 in fees to file for a Guardianship, plus lawyer fees. Who has Power of Attorney over him, both durable financial and medical? Hopefully someone does. Is it in force now, or his it "springing" meaning it is only valid after some medical issue deems him incompetent?

I would consider contacting some senior advocacy groups, (Not Adult protective Services as they are an arm of the police).

How is this man as far as handling money. Does he prepare his own meals and pay his own bills?

Money adds up quickly in these matters. And if proper POA's don't exist now and you have him ruled incompetent, then the court will have to be involved. That involves lawyer fees at $275-$325 per hour and court costs.

I would try to get some help first. Try the Area Association on Aging and do some searches for elder mediation groups who may be non profit. Don't wait.