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Old 10-22-2013, 01:38 AM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
8,020 posts, read 12,169,131 times
Reputation: 9793

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummer View Post
Sounds like you actually had an emergency, Valley Native . . .

As for "false alarms" . . . in most, if not all, cases the police rarely declare it "false" and assess a fine until there has been at least a couple of unnecessary calls.

As for paying taxes . . . WE ALL PAY TAXES and those that ABUSE the system with a poorly maintained system definitely need to pay more rather than raising the taxes for all of us in order to cover the additional expenses directly related to the negligence of a few arrogant bozos.
Yes, it's unfortunate that there are a few bozos who don't maintain their alarm systems properly. I can see the need for imposing fines if somebody is actually abusing the system. However, in my case, it was truly an emergency ... but yet the PPD still sent me a "false alarm" warning notice because they responded to a call in which nobody actually broke in or made the attempt to break in (as they put it). This is why I fought it. Whether the person at my door late at night had any intentions of breaking in or not is beside the point. NOBODY has the right to pound on anybody's door ... PERIOD. The person at my door still committed a crime (be it disturbing the peace, trespassing, attempted break in, or whatever). The PPD was very negligent in this particular instance and they had no business firing off a warning letter like they did!
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Old 10-22-2013, 01:51 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
23,068 posts, read 28,787,871 times
Reputation: 32338
I'm just finishing reading the Memoirs of Darryl Gates, who was Chief of Police for L.A. at one time.

When he started out in patrol, he said: The most hated aspect of doing patrol is giving out traffic tickets, as what officer enjoys doing this!!! If the police had their way, he says, they'd write no tickets!

When I read a true crime book, one time, involving a police officer, in the NYC area, it was a custom, back then, of having the newest officers, the rookies, write all the tickets!

So! If you get stopped, say: I'm so sorry your job requires you to do something you hate so much, and you have my sympathies!
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:50 AM
 
Location: downtown phoenix
1,217 posts, read 1,896,244 times
Reputation: 1977
so here's the scenario. officer john q. has to write so many tickets per month, regardless of how many violations he actually witnesses. it's the 28th of the month, and he is way behind. he is in a position to have to make his monthly quota or receive a bad review/less pay, whatever the case may be. suddenly people who are doing nothing wrong are pulled over and cited. this mad rush to meet his quota of traffic tickets at the end of the month actually takes away from fighting real crime as it forces him to divert his focus from criminals to quotas. and the bottom line here isn't making the streets safer, it is simply GENERATING MORE REVENUE, so forget about the taxes you already pay, get out your wallet because it's not enough according to the ppd.
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
38,957 posts, read 50,883,019 times
Reputation: 28135
Quote:
Originally Posted by kytoaz View Post
so here's the scenario. officer john q. has to write so many tickets per month, regardless of how many violations he actually witnesses. it's the 28th of the month, and he is way behind. he is in a position to have to make his monthly quota or receive a bad review/less pay, whatever the case may be. suddenly people who are doing nothing wrong are pulled over and cited. this mad rush to meet his quota of traffic tickets at the end of the month actually takes away from fighting real crime as it forces him to divert his focus from criminals to quotas. and the bottom line here isn't making the streets safer, it is simply GENERATING MORE REVENUE, so forget about the taxes you already pay, get out your wallet because it's not enough according to the ppd.
t's like the poster above said: there are so many violations from aggressive and downright poor drivers in this city that the cops would never have to pick on "someone who has done nothing wrong". They could get their month's quota in a day if they wanted to. If anything, a little more traffic enforcement is long overdue.
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:04 PM
 
9,189 posts, read 16,540,810 times
Reputation: 11290
Hopefully if they're running short on their quotas they'll begin ticketing those that impede traffic, that merge at a slower rate of speed than the flow of traffic, those that drive in the wrong lane on the highway, that don't accelerate after pulling out into traffic, etc. The drivers that contribute most to congestion are those that rarely get ticketed.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista
308 posts, read 786,790 times
Reputation: 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by kytoaz View Post
so here's the scenario. officer john q. has to write so many tickets per month, regardless of how many violations he actually witnesses. it's the 28th of the month, and he is way behind. he is in a position to have to make his monthly quota or receive a bad review/less pay, whatever the case may be. suddenly people who are doing nothing wrong are pulled over and cited. this mad rush to meet his quota of traffic tickets at the end of the month actually takes away from fighting real crime as it forces him to divert his focus from criminals to quotas. and the bottom line here isn't making the streets safer, it is simply GENERATING MORE REVENUE, so forget about the taxes you already pay, get out your wallet because it's not enough according to the ppd.
So you really think an officer who is sworn to uphold the law is going to make up violations? It may happen once in a while, but it most certainly is not the norm.

You have no clue as to how law enforcement works. An officer can not spend all day at the end of the month trying to make multiple traffic stops. He is still going to get dispatched to all the calls he normally would take. Traffic stops are squeezed in between calls for service and reports. One or two traffic stops per day usually does the trick, it's not like an officer has to make 10 stops a day. There are plenty of traffic violators to go around.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:51 AM
 
Location: galaxy far far away
3,110 posts, read 5,360,086 times
Reputation: 7280
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAinAZ View Post
Don't you have benchmarks you have to hit and standards you are held to in your job? Every job has a way to measure if you are doing what you are there for. Officers are no different. If there were no expectations of them to make traffic stops, some would not make any because it is not their thing. Trust me, their are plenty of people breaking traffic laws. The officers do not have to make things up if that's what you are worried about.
Yes, I do. And I'm not posting this as a hater of cops or the dept. I come from a law enforcement family and am well aware of the standards and measurements used across the country. There are a myriad of ways officers are measured and evaluated, but the quota system is rife with opportunities for abuse and not a measure of an officers effectiveness. It's a lazy and contrived method to give higher ups some "data" to show their bosses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
A certain amount of this is perfectly legitimate ... however, when people think of "quotas", they usually imagine a certain number that employees have to reach on a daily/hourly basis, or on a weekly average. It's kind of like how many widgets have to be produced by factory workers per hour or per day. Law enforcement should be run much differently than a factory because they are providing a public SERVICE, not a product. I personally do not want police officers being forced to write a certain number of traffic tickets, arrest a certain number of people, or raid a certain number of suspected undercover brothels simply to make their "quota" just so they can earn a "satisfactory" or "exceeds" ranking on their next performance review.

These kinds of quotas will not necessarily improve crime fighting. In fact, I have gotten the impression lately that the PPD has become more lax when it comes to responding to calls. As an example, my neighbor's burglar alarm went off twice within a six month period ... both times were unfortunately classified as "false alarms" when the police arrived, so he was fined! Responding to calls is an officer's JOB, regardless how "false" the call is perceived to be. Fining a homeowner for the police responding to burglar alarm calls tells me that the PPD is less interested in doing their jobs & protecting the public, which our tax money is already paying them to do.
^^^^*
What he said
Quote:
Originally Posted by kytoaz View Post
so here's the scenario. officer john q. has to write so many tickets per month, regardless of how many violations he actually witnesses. it's the 28th of the month, and he is way behind. he is in a position to have to make his monthly quota or receive a bad review/less pay, whatever the case may be. suddenly people who are doing nothing wrong are pulled over and cited. this mad rush to meet his quota of traffic tickets at the end of the month actually takes away from fighting real crime as it forces him to divert his focus from criminals to quotas. and the bottom line here isn't making the streets safer, it is simply GENERATING MORE REVENUE, so forget about the taxes you already pay, get out your wallet because it's not enough according to the ppd.
I have been at enough social events with law enforcement types and heard the stories to know kytoaz's scenario is very real. Not so much that ppl who are doing nothing, but ppl who do something like go 4 miles over the limit when the rest of traffic has routinely been going 15 over with no consequence.

IMHO quotas and "zero tolerance" policies can lead to some very unfair enforcement. Are you aware in AZ of the "impaired to ANY degree" law? Any degree... Let that soak in. So you had a ten hour work day. You dont drink.You dont smoke or do any drugs. Yet you are technically "impaired" because you are exhausted. But you aren't so far gone that you would fall asleep driving home. You react a little slower than normal. Quota cop sees you. You are polite. You have had no alcohol, so you arent concerned. Cop asks why you reacted slowly. You say, "Oh, I'm just tired from a long day at work." You just admitted to being impaired. Most cops hate the paperwork and would tell you to get home and get some rest. A quota-inspired cop might ticket you for impaired driving. Were you a public threat? Probably not. Could you fight it? Maybe. But this is real. I've been told by friends who are cops to never give any indication that you might be tired, have a cold (cough medicine = drugs) , or give them any reason to use you to fill their quota.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:17 AM
 
25 posts, read 54,865 times
Reputation: 32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAinAZ View Post
Don't you have benchmarks you have to hit and standards you are held to in your job? Every job has a way to measure if you are doing what you are there for. Officers are no different. If there were no expectations of them to make traffic stops, some would not make any because it is not their thing. Trust me, their are plenty of people breaking traffic laws. The officers do not have to make things up if that's what you are worried about.
some depts pay officers to be good civil servants. other pay by their kill ratio. even more so in mexico south. its called the little bite. the richer the district the move civil the servants. the poorer the dirtier the force.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Rural Michigan
6,343 posts, read 14,596,190 times
Reputation: 10548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
t's like the poster above said: there are so many violations from aggressive and downright poor drivers in this city that the cops would never have to pick on "someone who has done nothing wrong". They could get their month's quota in a day if they wanted to. If anything, a little more traffic enforcement is long overdue.
I picked Phoenix as a city to live in precisely because the cops were busy with real crime & not hassling people on the roads all the time. Too many bored cops on road patrol is an invitation for civil rights abuses.. The point of traffic stops isnt to stop you from speeding or driving dangerously, it's to peek in your ashtray, sniff your breath for beer & run your record for outstanding warrants. It has nothing to do at all with road safety & everything to do with filling our for-profit prisons..
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:05 AM
 
Location: GIlbert, AZ
3,032 posts, read 5,241,460 times
Reputation: 2105
I used to sell wireless phones and talk about quotas. I had to hit about 15 different quotas each day, week and month. Sometimes I used to wonder if it were better not to sell a phone...so that I would not be accountable for having to meet the 15 quotas for selling it.....irony. Cops...I agree with the rest of you. Don't drive like an idiot.
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