pool type? salt water or chlorinated? (Phoenix: construction, maintenance, organic)
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Actually, if you look at the chemical make-up of those tablets, the chlorine is bound into a solid with CYA. Yes, your pool needs a certain amount of CYA but too much masks the effectiveness of the chlorine. Depending on the pool, how much sunlight it gets, etc., you want to maintain your CYA somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 ppm +/- 15 ppm.
Those pucks add CYA. Period. Over time, your CYA will get too high and you'll need to use more and more chlorine to sanitize your pool or you'll have a green pool. There is a reason why the testers only go to 100 PPM. The pool stores will sell you all kinds of crap to keep it clean when all that is needed is to keep the CYA in check and a little chlorine every few days.
In my case, if I use the tablets, ever tablet used raises my CYA about .8 ppm and over the course of a summer, I'll have to remove a lot of water to bring the CYA down. Unfortunately, I have to remove a little water every month during the summer to keep my calcium from building up but that's the price we pay here in the valley because of our hard water..
Yes you are correct. In summertime (hot temps/rain potential) you need to be 70-90 PPM in the middle of summer. You can essentially lock the pool up when the CYA exceeds 100 causing it to turn green no matter what the chlorine content is.
I've never added salt except from the initial start up of our pool. It needs Muriatic Acid to lower the PH, Borax to raise the PH, I have water tested free at my local Ace Hardware or Leslies for free. I also add Stain & Scale and Phos Free as needed with an occasional shock tablet during heavy swim months. I would never have a Chlorine pool, ever. The water isn't as gentle, makes my skin dry, burns eyes and hard on swimsuits of which I spend way too much money on. Maintenance is lower on SW if you ask me. The only high cost will be when the salt cell needs to be replaced, ours runs about $370, I've seen some cells last 7 years and some as little as 3. As for electricity, the salt generator is only running when the pump is running when the pool vacuum we have is cleaning at 4am, very little cost as it's only on for 2-4 hours, not running all the time.
Ponderosa is exactly right. No salt is consumed in generation of chlorine or evaporation and you do not have to add salt unless water is removed somehow through bather splash out or draining water. As he also said, the local water here adds salt so it climbs here and requires a water drain to get it back down to acceptable levels along with the other mineral levels that get too high.
This was last week's weather: Torrential rain causes severe flooding in Palm Beach County
(National Weather Service )
January 10, 2014|By David Fleshler, Andy Reid and Attiyya Anthony, Sun Sentinel
The surprise flood that struck Palm Beach County before dawn Friday caused at least two deaths, closed schools and led to the first-ever flood-related shutdown of Interstate 95.
"Historically heavy rain" swamped parts of the county, said the National Weather Service. Unofficial totals showed 22.21 inches fell around I-95 and Gateway Boulevard, and 12 to 18 inches fell over a few hours in Lantana, Boynton Beach and Delray Beach.
Safe to say, Home Depot sold a few pallets of salt in each store!
If Home Depot stocks pallets of salt solely used for pools, it obviously is a consumption product!
You have 25 years in the pool industry and the only argument you have is that Home Depot stocks pallets of salt so it must be a consumption product?
You would have to add salt if none is added by the water that auto refills the pool as swimmers will splash water out and take water out on their bathing suits. It would be a small amount that would need to be added, not a large amount that you are under the impression would be needed. Around here our water is very high in minerals and contains salt so due to the high level of evaporation a lot of new water (which includes salt) is added but not enough is removed with bather load so the salt level climbs in most cases and eventually requires water to be drained to get the salt level back down.
My salt level has never dropped, in fact it climbs quickly and requires me to do partial drains on occasion to get it back below 3400 ppm.
We are talking about Arizona, specifically the Phoenix area. Your Florida information isn't good information here and you're confusing the issue.
A quote from someplace actually "in the industry"
"The genius about having a saltwater pool is that it can automatically create chlorine for the needs of the pool making the purchase and buying of chlorine unnecessary. Also, it helps you save salt since the salt that was used in the process of generating chlorine is again returned to the water pool as salt during the process of breaking down of chlorine. Thus, it means that salt is not really consumed nor used and there is no need to add more salt after quite some weeks. The salt you added at the first time you had the chlorine generator is just continually recycles and circulates throughout the whole process. But, it is natural that you add water to the swimming pool in order to replace the water that is lost from splash out and evaporate. Additionally, in minimal amount, it is also normal to add some salt once in awhile to replace the salt that is physically removed through splash out. Fortunately, since the salt is not undergoing evaporation, addition of salt does not need to be often."
In my case, if I use the tablets, ever tablet used raises my CYA about .8 ppm and over the course of a summer, I'll have to remove a lot of water to bring the CYA down.
Wow, that's a lot. How big is your pool? I used a whole bucket of those tablets last year. Haven't checked my CYA in a while, but on the other hand haven't had any problem keeping the pool clean.
You have 25 years in the pool industry and the only argument you have is that Home Depot stocks pallets of salt so it must be a consumption product?
You would have to add salt if none is added by the water that auto refills the pool as swimmers will splash water out and take water out on their bathing suits. Around here our water is very high in minerals and contains salt so due to the high level of evaporation a lot of new water (which includes salt) is added but not enough is removed with bather load so the salt level climbs in most cases and eventually requires water to be drained to get the salt level back down.
My salt level has never dropped, in fact it climbs quickly and requires me to do partial drains on occasion to get it back below 3400 ppm.
We are talking about Arizona, specifically the Phoenix area. Your Florida information isn't good information here and you're confusing the issue.
A quote from someplace actually "in the industry"
"The genius about having a saltwater pool is that it can automatically create chlorine for the needs of the pool making the purchase and buying of chlorine unnecessary. Also, it helps you save salt since the salt that was used in the process of generating chlorine is again returned to the water pool as salt during the process of breaking down of chlorine. Thus, it means that salt is not really consumed nor used and there is no need to add more salt after quite some weeks. The salt you added at the first time you had the chlorine generator is just continually recycles and circulates throughout the whole process. But, it is natural that you add water to the swimming pool in order to replace the water that is lost from splash out and evaporate. Additionally, in minimal amount, it is also normal to add some salt once in awhile to replace the salt that is physically removed through splash out. Fortunately, since the salt is not undergoing evaporation, addition of salt does not need to be often."
I referenced Home Depot only because as the nation's "largest do it yourself retailer" they only stock product they sell a lot of. If they didn't sell a lot of it, they wouldn't stock it!
It does note it is normal to add salt once in awhile.......So what is your point? I told you that 2 pages ago?
If you got 12-22 inches of rain in ONE DAY like Florida did last week would you have to add salt?
This was last week's weather: Torrential rain causes severe flooding in Palm Beach County
(National Weather Service )
January 10, 2014|By David Fleshler, Andy Reid and Attiyya Anthony, Sun Sentinel
The surprise flood that struck Palm Beach County before dawn Friday caused at least two deaths, closed schools and led to the first-ever flood-related shutdown of Interstate 95.
"Historically heavy rain" swamped parts of the county, said the National Weather Service. Unofficial totals showed 22.21 inches fell around I-95 and Gateway Boulevard, and 12 to 18 inches fell over a few hours in Lantana, Boynton Beach and Delray Beach.
Safe to say, Home Depot sold a few pallets of salt in each store!
Then you're adding salt because your pool was diluted with rain water and water was drained to get the water level back down to where it should be taking the salt with it. Not because the SWG is consuming salt.
Maybe you didn't notice you're arguing with a bunch of people in the Phoenix Arizona forum that have salt water pools here. Your Florida information is irrelevant here since we don't get 21 inches of rain a year let alone in a few hours. We get 9 inches of rain A YEAR so we do not have that issue here.
Actually, if you look at the chemical make-up of those tablets, the chlorine is bound into a solid with CYA. Yes, your pool needs a certain amount of CYA but too much masks the effectiveness of the chlorine. Depending on the pool, how much sunlight it gets, etc., you want to maintain your CYA somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 ppm +/- 15 ppm.
Those pucks add CYA. Period. Over time, your CYA will get too high and you'll need to use more and more chlorine to sanitize your pool or you'll have a green pool. There is a reason why the testers only go to 100 PPM. The pool stores will sell you all kinds of crap to keep it clean when all that is needed is to keep the CYA in check and a little chlorine every few days.
In my case, if I use the tablets, ever tablet used raises my CYA about .8 ppm and over the course of a summer, I'll have to remove a lot of water to bring the CYA down. Unfortunately, I have to remove a little water every month during the summer to keep my calcium from building up but that's the price we pay here in the valley because of our hard water.
Hi Ponderosa. How ya doin'
I'm no expert in this particular area since I don't have an SWG so correct me if I'm wrong but once the salt is converted to chlorine, doesn't some of that chlorine get used up in the sanitizing process and also, won't some of the chlorine get burned up from the sunlight? Once that happens, wouldn't there be less chlorine to be converted back to salt?
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's more like I'm looking for some clarification as I'd love to get a SWG sometime in the future.
When you put chlorine in water you get a reaction that yields hypochlorous acid, hypochlorite ions, and chloride ions. When you add bleach you are at that stage already and have a solution of hypochlorite, sodium, and chloride ions. If you add tabs, the chemistry is more complex but the results are the same: you have hypochlorite ions and they are the chemical that does most of the work. Hypochlorite is not stable in solution and tries to combine with positive ions. It readily combines with sodium and turns to salt consuming much of it. It also combines with organics and ammonia and in the process sanitizes the pool. The hypochlorite and hypochlorous acid in your pool in the presence of a certain sprectrum of UV light undergoes a process called photolysis. It gets converted to
which means that it basically becomes an ineffective salt. It is not consumed, it just adds to the TDS of your pool.
When you use tabs or have CYA (did you know CYA is an herbicide?) in the pool, you get dichlor-CYA which is UV stable. dichloro-CYA exists in equilibrium with HOCL (hypochlorous acid, the stuff that does the work) in the pool. If the HOCL gets eaten up, then the D-CYA releases more into the pool. It is a sort of reservoir for your chlorine. If the CYA gets too large, then the HOCL in the pool drops -which is the reason that you lose effectiveness with too much CYA as you pointed out!
Anyway, this gets complicated in a hurry, but the bottom line is this: the chlorine you add ends up as organic or inorganic salts in your pool water. It is not consumed, it builds up. If you get the chlorine from a salt generator it ends up as salt again after all the chemical reactions. If you add it from a bottle it ends up as salt. If you add tabs it ends up as salts. The guy who is arguing that salt is consumed is just plain wrong. The only way that you can lose chlorine from you pool in a salt system is in the first few seconds where it shoots into the pool and there might be some gaseous cl that escapes (very unlikely) or if bather take it out somehow by splashing etc.
It does note it is normal to add salt once in awhile.......So what is your point? I told you that 2 pages ago?
If you got 12-22 inches of rain in ONE DAY like Florida did last week would you have to add salt?
My point is that you don't understand how it works as can be seen in this statement. A SWG doesn't "burn through" ANY salt while generating chlorine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S
Run a SWG pool on zero CYA and you will burn through a 40 lb bag of salt per month!
Second, were not in Florida. Please notice you're in the Phoenix Arizona forum.
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