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I sort out the bad apples in my mind before I generalize. If not, I'd dislike all whites, blacks, gays, Christians, straight, Muslims, democrats, Republicans etc, etc, etc.
I was looking to understand the logic. I didn't expect to get a good answer.
Yeah, the Canadian lowlifes behind me, but in general I would rather have the ducks around than old people from wherever. It is mostly the driving and the crowding in my favorite places - like taking all the nice sites at the lake campground all winter. I guess you all are good for business, but the winter visitor aspect of Phoenix is one that I would not otherwise miss. It is not uncommon for those who do not benefit directly from tourists to have a negative attitude about them. For example, I grew up in a tourist town in Wisconsin and people have a special name for people from the Land of Lincoln - FIB (Urban Dictionary: fib).
Yeah, the Canadian lowlifes behind me, but in general I would rather have the ducks around than old people from wherever. It is mostly the driving and the crowding in my favorite places - like taking all the nice sites at the lake campground all winter. I guess you all are good for business, but the winter visitor aspect of Phoenix is one that I would not otherwise miss. It is not uncommon for those who do not benefit directly from tourists to have a negative attitude about them. For example, I grew up in a tourist town in Wisconsin and people have a special name for people from the Land of Lincoln - FIB (Urban Dictionary: fib).
We have several Canucks in our neighborhood. No problems here. I figured you would have recognized that there are idiots in every group.
When you live in a nice place, others like to visit. If you move to Minot ND your problems will be solved.
It would upset me too if someone squatted on the best campsites months at a time. The solution is to change the rules.
I'm in the snowbird bucket. Yet I bet I'm younger than you, I don't drive on the highways during rush hour, I like paying to improve the schools w/o having kids, and I don't camp. A lot of snowbird I know in our neighborhood fits a similar profile. We are working snowbirds.
We have several Canucks in our neighborhood. No problems here. I figured you would have recognized that there are idiots in every group.
When you live in a nice place, others like to visit. If you move to Minot ND your problems will be solved.
It would upset me too if someone squatted on the best campsites months at a time. The solution is to change the rules.
I'm in the snowbird bucket. Yet I bet I'm younger than you, I don't drive on the highways during rush hour, I like paying to improve the schools w/o having kids, and I don't camp. A lot of snowbird I know in our neighborhood fits a similar profile. We are working snowbirds.
Not trying to have a discussion on snowbirds. I only commented above in response to the post about them getting rid of the coots on the lake that I prefer the real snow birds to the human ones here in Estrella for the winter. I'm not going to change my mind about that. In fact, I said to my wife when I read the story, "Why don't they sedate the geezer snowbirds and ship them back to the tundra instead of the birds?"
To some degree, what the OP is asking is part of the issue. OP wants a "resort". We have the palms, the lakes, the acres of grass but this is NOT a resort. Estrella is a community where people live and work. We do not want you partying all night on the patio, blasting your music while you frolic in the pool and guzzle umbrella drinks. We don't want you yelling and watching hockey on your big screen outdoors. We don't want you renting your house out by the week to a never-ending stream of people who are "on vacation". We don't want your resort style backyard atmosphere lighting shining in our windows at night. We are not on vacation. We have to go to work and to school. We have real resorts and RV parks for that. If you want a resort, go to a resort. If you want to have an extended winter stay and can be respectful of your full timer neighbors then you are welcome.
Last edited by Ponderosa; 03-11-2014 at 01:09 PM..
Not trying to have a discussion on snowbirds. I only commented above in response to the post about them getting rid of the coots on the lake that I prefer the real snow birds to the human ones here in Estrella for the winter. I'm not going to change my mind about that. In fact, I said to my wife when I read the story, "Why don't they sedate the geezer snowbirds and ship them back to the tundra instead of the birds?"
To some degree, what the OP is asking is part of the issue. OP wants a "resort". We have the palms, the lakes, the acres of grass but this is NOT a resort. Estrella is a community where people live and work. We do not want you partying all night on the patio, blasting your music while you frolic in the pool and guzzle umbrella drinks. We don't want you yelling and watching hockey on your big screen outdoors. We don't want you renting your house out by the week to a never-ending stream of people who are "on vacation". We don't want your resort style backyard atmosphere lighting shining in our windows at night. We are not on vacation. We have to go to work and to school. We have real resorts and RV parks for that. If you want a resort, go to a resort. If you want to have an extended winter stay and can be respectful of your full timer neighbors then you are welcome.
You must have rare neighbors but I am not so sure you recognize that. No one wants people partying all night on the patio yelling and watching a hockey game. If that is common in your hood, then maybe "white trash" is an accurate description of the area.
Estrella is a community comprised of all sorts. Rest assured the developers aimed for a "resort-like" feel and therefore they are going to attract people who want that style of living; including the OP. I can appreciate that you want Ward and June Cleaver to only live in the development. But there are plenty of PITA families that have barking dogs, kids who play in the roads that won't move, disrespectful teens, and those who don't take care of their properties in every neighborhood.
But as a friendly reminder, you don't own Arizona, the parks, or the lakes. I don't own the lake in MN that I live on either. People on our MN lake somehow think that that is "their lake" and "their fish" as compared to a guest. Nope!
That said, if you don't want people to rent out by the week, just be involved and change the HOA rules. Problem solved. In the meantime, the developers are gunning for that 2nd home buyers $$'s. Jobs depend on it.
So if I'm to search in Litchfield Park, could someone give me some boundaries as to what would be a nice area with some amenities close by? Looks like there are some golf courses there, but also close to the Air Force Base. I haven't been to Litchfield Park so I know nothing about that. I have seen some nice houses pop up there.
I don't have to be in a planned community, but while we found some really great houses in regular neighborhoods, the feeling was...garages, inconsistently kept yards, not really a neighborhood where you'd go for a bike ride....So for the under $250k price range, a far flung master planned community really offers a lot in terms of a nice setting for a vacation home. It's not that the neighborhood necessarily has to have a resort feel (though that's nice), it mainly just needs to not interfere with the feeling that the home I buy is my resort, if that makes sense. Don't harsh the mellow.
Litchfield Park (only within the walls or Village at Litchfiled) is quite nice and has a great reputation. We have a friend that just moved from her 4,400 sq ft Goodyear house to a much smaller, older home in LP simply due to its desirability and perceived safety. The Wigwam resort is there and there will be new restaurants and shops on the west side of Litchfield Rd, next to The Village at Litchfield. Currently, old LP has restaurants at the Wigwam, and a sushi place, mexican place, ice cream, breakfast/American type place.
I live in Palm Valley and while I am very happy, the grass is always greener I really like LP (not the neighborhoods that are considered county islands) and Verrado. The areas of Palm Valley do have areas that are not over-seeding, but they have over-seeded the most impactful areas. Personally, we have a landscaper that over-seeds our lawn so it is never brown. The drawback to Palm Valley is that only the first few phases share a community pool and they have two HOA fees. There are so many nice areas around here and as a second home, it seems hard to go wrong
We do not want you partying all night on the patio, blasting your music......
Ponderosa....have you taken any action against them? I know it's awkward(at least it is for me) to consider talking to them, contacting the HOA, etc. but there becomes a point that I think any of us will have a breaking point where a famililes sleep/quality of life is being negatively impacted and respond to action.
From the Estrella Community Handbook:
"Use or discharge of any radio, loudspeaker, horn, whistle, bell, or other sound
device so as to be audible to occupants of other residences, except alarm devices
used exclusively for security purposes, is not permitted."
Right away you have a case with the HOA.
I know it's frustrating/I never had the issue on our end that you're having but I know more than a few people in your situation that live in other parts of the valley, some in "exclusive" areas, that have the same issues....unfortunately, rudeness can and does once in a while transcend income/education level.
Well, when I say "winter" you must understand that I'm from Montana and that covers 8 months of the year. We do not have spring. In a good year we might have a long, glorious fall--but we might as likely just have winter again instead. For my vacation home, a pool is an absolute must. We can heat it if the kids want to go in, and that's fine, but my dear the pool is for me, and it is not for swimming in It is for laying next to and looking at in my "resort-like" back yard. I don't swim. I bask. I'm starting to get the idea that some here think that's unrealistic! lol Pool is a must have, and as I said before, the weather in Phoenix in March feels nice & toasty to us.
Part of the reason we did not offer on the house in Verrado last weekend was indeed the small lot with very difficult access for pool building. It can be done, but is not ideal and of course costs a good chunk extra for the extra labor involved. If the house is still there in three weeks, it's not off our list. But it's cheaper to buy a house that already has a pool.
We are sure hoping not to be the annoying type of snowbirds; we think we're pretty good people to have as neighbors. And I don't mean to be judgmental about the appearance of Estrella. It looks nicer than many of the neighborhoods we've been in, and I know there are very nice areas within the development (out of our price range).
It's just that I am not looking for a "regular" neighborhood with the regular neighborhood annoyances, and that's a big part of the reason for choosing a MPC. A neighborhood I would very happily live in is not necessarily the same as the one I want to vacation in. Vacationing in a residential neighborhood by definition though (given our price range) will require some compromises. So those compromises are the crux of our search right now.
Thanks for the clarification on the name "Estrella." I thought there was also a neighborhood in Phoenix proper called Estrella, so I was just trying to keep it clear. My bad.
The post above by MN about the brown grass in winter (we just learned about "winter grass" on our last trip down! I had no idea, duh. Dumb snowbirds, right?) I really think I've ruled out Palm Valley based on that alone. Otherwise, based on the houses alone, that is probably where we would end up.
It is so helpful to get real opinions, and I take them as such. I am a realtor, so I understand when our realtor is hesitant to answer questions about neighborhoods, but it's still frustrating. It would take years of visiting Phoenix to gain the knowledge I've gleaned from this forum in the last several months, and I so very much appreciate people willing to take time out of their days to try to help a total stranger. Nice.
Oh, so many replies while I was not looking. Thank you, Military spouse, I'll take a look there. And if they are doing quite a bit of overseeding in Palm Valley we will at least look when we're there. We can't spread ourselves too thin. Our top priorities are an appealing, clean neighborhood, proximity to golf, and a backyard pool. After that it's extras like the community pool (which grosses me out, but my kids love 'em & I can bask!), tennis, and other activities available.
Where Estrella seems to excel is the general desert mountain setting and possibly the extra activities, which remains to be seen. It seems the opinions are divided on whether they're a great asset to the community beyond the visual appeal.
I was born in North Dakota, and I think I might be offended by the implication that Minot is not a nice place to visit.
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