New Homeowner Needs Advises about Repairing or Replacing AC Unit (Phoenix: lawyer, heat pump)

[haretanya]

My Goodman AC (3.5 Ton, 14 Seer) does not cool down well. The lowest room temperature it can get to is 82 degrees (78 degrees in the morning; outdoor temperature: L 66 and H 95 degree today). I called a company to diagnose the problem. I am now wondering if I should repair or replace the unit entirely.

He said the refrigerant (R22) is really low and roughly estimated to add about 6-7 pounds of it ($80 * 6 lb = $480). The indoor coil is all rusted and it has ice on it which prevents the air to go through thoroughly ($1800). The outdoor fan capacitor is really bad and needs replacement ($140). And the outdoor compressor is not functioning well so needs replacement ($250). He suggested adding R22 and also some dye (?) to track where the leak is in additional to the indoor coil. He said it is most likely that the coil is leaking. It is $200 to add dye in and another $200 to look for leaking places.

I added up all the costs for replacing each of the parts that are bad or almost bad plus refrigerant, and the cost of the dye. It sums up to about $3070. He suggests me to replace the entire unit and give me a quote for Trane, which is close to $6000, after the rebate from my electricity company.

The AC shall be installed about 10 years ago when the builder built the home. I bought the home just about 2 years ago, and did not know about AC maintenance until this summer. He said the average lifespan for the AC is 10 years in Phoenix. I know R22 is very expensive, if it keeps leaking then it may probably cost more. Plus a new unit is more energy-efficient and probably saves me more on my electricity bill.

Looks like I'd better replace the AC, but still very hesitated because of the cost $$$$... so I would love to hear you guys' second opinions.

1. Do you think that I miss anything that I should have considered? Other pros/cons and other potential costs I should consider for each option?
2. Are there ways to replace/repair with a lower cost?

Thank you so much in advance! This is my first post on City-Data.

[Roger427]

An a/c system sure as heck should last more than 10 years. Get at least 2 more quotes. Trane is good quality equipment.

[wit-nit]

A lot depends on the usage of an air conditioner as far a life expectancy. 10 years is a low figure, most are over 15 years, our last 2 were 30 & 25 years old before replacement.
A Trane is an excellent top of the line AC and you'll probably get a minimum of 20 years out of it. We now have a Trane 19 seer unit and in the past 9 years since it was installed we have had zero problems and no service needed. One of the key things for longevity is to clean the filters regularly. Our electric bill runs @150.00 monthly for a 2000 sq ft house.

[AZJoeD]

Originally Posted by haretanya

My Goodman AC (3.5 Ton, 14 Seer) does not cool down well. The lowest room temperature it can get to is 82 degrees (78 degrees in the morning; outdoor temperature: L 66 and H 95 degree today). I called a company to diagnose the problem. I am now wondering if I should repair or replace the unit entirely.

He said the refrigerant (R22) is really low and roughly estimated to add about 6-7 pounds of it ($80 * 6 lb = $480). The indoor coil is all rusted and it has ice on it which prevents the air to go through thoroughly ($1800). The outdoor fan capacitor is really bad and needs replacement ($140). And the outdoor compressor is not functioning well so needs replacement ($250). He suggested adding R22 and also some dye (?) to track where the leak is in additional to the indoor coil. He said it is most likely that the coil is leaking. It is $200 to add dye in and another $200 to look for leaking places.

I added up all the costs for replacing each of the parts that are bad or almost bad plus refrigerant, and the cost of the dye. It sums up to about $3070. He suggests me to replace the entire unit and give me a quote for Trane, which is close to $6000, after the rebate from my electricity company.

The AC shall be installed about 10 years ago when the builder built the home. I bought the home just about 2 years ago, and did not know about AC maintenance until this summer. He said the average lifespan for the AC is 10 years in Phoenix. I know R22 is very expensive, if it keeps leaking then it may probably cost more. Plus a new unit is more energy-efficient and probably saves me more on my electricity bill.

Looks like I'd better replace the AC, but still very hesitated because of the cost $$$$... so I would love to hear you guys' second opinions.

1. Do you think that I miss anything that I should have considered? Other pros/cons and other potential costs I should consider for each option?
2. Are there ways to replace/repair with a lower cost?

Thank you so much in advance! This is my first post on City-Data.

Get another AC repair person. $80 per lbs for R22 is way too high. The AC unit is icing up because it is low on freon, add freon and that will stop. Of course if there is a leak, it will have to be fixed, but find the leak first. $200 for dye is outrageous.

A 14 SEER system is pretty good so repairing it is not out of the question. I would find another AC company.

[Bummer]

Just last year I was in a similar pickle, Hareyanya . . .

My ten plus year old Amana Heat Pump was still cooling in spite of "laboring" and definitely not as efficient as when new so I opted to replace it with a new unit.

After some research plus a few expert opinions and estimates, a new Heat Pump was installed by Chas Roberts HVAC and I could not be happier. Not only considerably quieter and so much more efficient that my electric bill has dropped by more than 50% but the Peace Of Mind makes it worth every penny.

My recommendation . . . replace and enjoy the comfort.

[wpme]

He is banging you pretty hard on the R22, I recently had 6 lbs added to my system and it cost $125. The coils are icing because the system is low. HVAC supply stores carry a spray on cleaner that works pretty good. Capacitors work, or they don't work, its 2 wires, unplug, plug in new cap, without more details my WAG is its a $20-$40 part max. The compressor is not working well because its low on freon. $200 to add dye is a rip-off, if he was a real tech he would have a sniffer. How long ago was freon last added, if never, the leak is too miniscule to worry about IMHO. If you really think its leaking there is a leak stop, several kinds actually, but only one really works and won't lock your compressor up.

Are you at all mechanically inclined? Do you own basic tools, or have friends that do and they know how to use them? AC system in my home is 30 years old and blowing ice cold right now, if you know what you are doing you can get one to last a long time, if I had to call a repair person everytime, it would have been scrapped a decade or longer ago. Only thing I need an AC tech for is the freon, have my own gauges, just no license to buy the stuff.

[Two-K]

Check your personal messages, I sent a link to a local company that will give you troubleshooting information over the phone that might help you. He also has Youtube videos that will walk you through some of the more common and easy to spot things, like leaks. Let us know what he says.

If you search this forum, you'll quickly learn that finding an honest HVAC company is going to be a challenge. Some of the info you've already received should send up some red flags: $200 for dye, $140 for a capacitor and $250 for a new compressor are all wrong answers. Trane is a reputable but expensive brand which uses proprietary parts that pretty much marries you to them whenever problems arise, and the new $6500 Trane heat pump a neighbor had installed last summer is one of the noisiest units I've ever heard. Don't lose any sleep over not having a maintenance checkup done every year, the $59 price fools you into letting them on your property where they will almost always "find" something wrong. Do your research and good luck.

[Ponderosa]

The average lifespan for ac is about 20 years not 10. The prices for services are too high. The guy sounds like a scammer - most of the ac people here are. Your unit has a leak, probably an evaporator coil. They don't make them like they used to. If you have a copper one, water mixes with home "fumes" to make formic acid which eats a hole in them. If you do replace make sure the new unit has an aluminum evaporator coil. Tranes do, but so do Goodmans at about half the price.

Anyhow, I would get a second opinion. I sent you a PM of someone I think you can trust.

[Zippyman]

Here's what the equipment costs:

https://www.acwholesalers.com/Air-Co...6454%3A3.5+Ton

I'm not telling you to install a new one yourself - but know that the *appliance* you're buying isn't particularly expensive or complex. The guy doing the install isn't a Dr or a Lawyer who went to school for 12 years learning a black art. An install of a complete unit shouldn't be much more than $1,000 (cause it only takes a few hours of a technician's time).

The prices quoted for repairs are obscene, but common. Shop around & ask lots of questions. Especially about *warranty*, because the standard warranty is worthless if the shop doing the work gouges you on labor.

Fwiw, your original system is most likely oversized & you could prolly save a huge amount of energy by bumping *down* to a 3-ton unit with a two-speed compressor. (Two-speed compressors are only sold in full-ton increments). Don't let anyone sell you a bigger unit. Bigger isn't better.

New units come pre-charged with refrigerant & the new refrigerant is much less expensive than r-22. - r410 is like $3 a pound. You can almost always re-use the lineset going to your old unit, unless you want to move it somewhere else.

Based on what you posted - If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking at these :

https://www.acwholesalers.com/Air-Co...A16458%3A16.00

That's a two-stage 16 seer unit. Seer ratings don't mean much in the desert, but you need to go to 16 seer to get the two-speed compressor, which will actually save you a ton. On moderate days, a two-stage compressor still cools the house, but it doesn't draw as much juice. On hot days, you still have full capacity.

I'd figure on $4500 tops /installed, for a top-shelf goodman with a fancy-pants touchscreen thermostat.

Id be willing to bet your $6k quote was for a much lower-specd unit, without a two-stage compressor, which is just throwing money away imho..

[AZ Manager]

New homeowner, did you not get a home warranty? They will cover most of these issues for your deductible. Always get a warranty with a home purchase, and carry it for a few years.