Our Retirement Community Visit, Phoenix-Phase III (Tucson, Flagstaff: renting, homeowners association, buying a house)

[BestintheWest]

Really only one option left. Canta Mia in Estrella. Yes a little expensive, but very nice, no cows, same distance to stuff as Festival.

Easy to get to from where you are staying. Straight south on the 303 hwy.

Other than that in the price range you have seen it all.

After living here in the valley for 15 years and in 3 different 55+ I am glad to see you are on the right track.
Good job Gene R.

[azgopher]

Not sure if you eliminated Sun City Grand but we have been here for 3 years from Mn and could not love it more. Great place, people and amenities. Convenient and welcoming.

[GeneR]

About the time we make a final decision we start discussing the order in which we give priority to various aspects of living in a 55+ community. A final decision has not been made on our selection but we've come close, several times. We've been in AZ for 6 days with another 3 to go. We actually thought this, our 3rd trip in a year, would be the clarifying visit. Oh well, nice try.

A quick summary of this visit begins with our Sun City bus tour followed by a day of visiting homes for sale with our realtor team. We looked in SC, SC West and Corte Bella. I loved Corte Bella but a 2nd visit took it off our lists. Gorgeous but lacking in amenities. SC and SCW have great amenities. SCW brags it has more amenities than SC per capita. Our return visits made clear, in our opinion, the SC facilities are better.

You can't do any investigation into SC or SCW without realizing these two communities are probably the best buy of any 55+ community in the country. Housing stock is so varied, neighborhoods super clean and well kept, landscaping mature (we think SCW has more beauty in this area than SC) and facilities are top rate. Houses set on lots that are much larger than those in newer communities for a lot less money. So why not just choose to choose? Well, we think there's one major drawback to both.

Demographics! Look at any data on age of residents. SC and SCW skew very heavy to the top of the age brackets. Most recent data I saw from 2012 indicated the original Sun City has a lower mean age and more residents 55 to 64 than Sun City West. This was somewhat surprising to me since I assumed since SCW is newer it would have a younger demographic. However, as we toured the recreation centers in both communities we noticed almost every person we saw seemed much older to us (we're boomers).

Before you folks get your panties all bunched up over this just know that we are aware there are 80 year olds that are more active than 50 year olds. We know also there are boomers moving in. We just thought that everywhere we looked almost every resident we would see in both communities seemed much older than are we. We're just not sure we want to (or can) develop social circles with people old enough to be our parents. Yes, there are boomers and boomer groups, trust me, WE KNOW. But as we look around the community here at Festival where we are staying you see a smattering of older people amongst the mostly boomer community. So what price to live among boomers instead of "elderly"?

Given the type of property we wish to call home I'm guesstimating it would cost us between $250 to $600 a month more to live in Festival than either of the older Sun Cities. Sun City Grand would be somewhere around $150 to $400 monthly below cost of a Festival residency. These are just guesstimates, actual numbers would vary on housing selection. Taxes and HOA fees are much higher at Festival. Today (Wednesday) we're going to take yet another look at Sun City Grand. It may be a good compromise for our needs and wants. Maybe not.

So you thought you'd be able to read this and find that we had made a decision and offered a list, one, two, three and four reasons why we think X Community is the perfect fit? Sorry. Stay tuned. And...

It may not come for a few more months. Then again, it could come today.

[anjcohen]

Gene,

We await in suspense for your decision! Just want you to know we think you have done and excellent job in your research and appreciate your valuable insight. Your posts are just wonderful to read!

Thank you.

[gbpakrfan]

Gene,

Thanks for the update. I'm sure I'm just one of many who eagerly anticipates your reports.

Like you, we're Boomers and we were concerned about the right "mix" of ages in our new community. I understand where you're coming from, with the concern about the more elderly/established folks. Nothing against "elderly" people...I know I'll be one myself (and some days I feel more "elderly" than others). But the fact that many of them have lived there for many years, their social circles are probably less open to newcomers as opposed to a community where the majority of residents may be a bit younger and perhaps newer residents themselves. Also, we were looking for newer construction, so we eventually settled on Anthem Merrill Ranch (or in your view, aka Cow Poop Village). All things considered, we feel this was the right move for us. Yes, we would like a little more shopping and restaurant choices nearby, but we feel the newness of the community (and the residents) is worth the tradeoff. If we have cows for neighbors, so be it. We're hoping we made the right "moooooo-ve".

Good luck with your decision, wherever you eventually land.

[GeneR]

Originally Posted by BestintheWest

Really only one option left. Canta Mia in Estrella. Yes a little expensive, but very nice, no cows, same distance to stuff as Festival.

"...just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in."-Michael Corleone, Godfather III.

Gee, thanks Best in the West. Here we are after months and months of community investigation, investigation that included not only the Valley of the Sun but areas north and south of Tucson. Just when i thought we had narrowed our choices down to a mere two 55+ communities here comes this suggestion: Canta Mia (meaning "sings my"). Time to take a drive and take a look.

We took the route down to Goodyear via Estrella Boulevard and started getting real excited as we drove up and through the mountain pass. Very nice setting for this very new community which is part of the larger master planned "Estrella" in Goodyear. We passed through the guard gated entrance and arrived at the Village Center. From first look at Canta Mia I'm thinking "they really are singing [i]My Song[i]. That was first look.

We met with a sales rep, toured the nicely appointed Village Center (sales headquarters/rec center) with it's clever musical theme throughout. Then we were delivered via golf car to the nearby models to further examine. They are dressed to the nines and look very nice. Step out of each model into the street and the mountain views are almost breathtaking. The rep then gave us some pricing on a spec (or ready built) home. Very much lower than we expected. We could easily make this work in our budget. There were a few items which we didn't care for.

On the drive south into Goodyear we noticed freshly cut hay raked into drying rows. This is a problem for my allergy suffering wife. Toward the end of our visit the sales rep mentioned a nearby dairy farm which, on occasion, can be noticed by the nose if the wind is just right. Then there's the taxes and fees. The HOA fee at CM is just a hair under $200. That's a lot of fee for not a lot of amenities. Property taxes run 1.5% rather than 1% or less in every other community we gave serious consideration.

Canta Mia is nearing completed sales of it's first phase. There are still nice lots available. Currently it has developed about one quarter of its 1700 home maximum. It is a community in it's very early stages of development and therefore the activities and amenities are somewhat less than residents of larger, more established communities would find. For some, this can be a plus.

I appreciate the good tip from Best in the West but this community, while strong on some points, is weak on others that we deem important. So there you have it. Yes, we were "...pulled back in" but this community does not sing enough of my song to warrant further investigation. That leaves us with just two.

We've been staying in Festival and we love a lot about this community. Yesterday we made a return visit to Sun City Grand. These two communities are our finalists. My wife has made her decision. I'm not so sure. More to be revealed.

[BestintheWest]

glad you took a look, sorry for throwing more irons in the fire, just want to make sure all options have been explored. That is how we all make better decisions with no regrets.
Good luck Gene R

[Montanama]

Originally Posted by BestintheWest

glad you took a look, sorry for throwing more irons in the fire, just want to make sure all options have been explored. That is how we all make better decisions with no regrets.
Good luck Gene R

Agreed, I was having a little bit of stress thinking you would make a decision without at least looking at Estrella first, lol. The setting is unbeatable but I would agree it's not as well established yet. The homes up there are gorgeous though, so well done. I like the idea of being adjacent to a larger, non age-restricted community. But it is a bit far out.

So do the HOA fees in Canta Mia cover the use of the larger Estrella amenities (clubhouse and pool) or Canta Mia only?

As everyone here knows, I'll never leave Estrella (never say never, I know), but I might make a slide over to the old-folks area someday, who knows? lol

[BestintheWest]

Originally Posted by Montanama

So do the HOA fees in Canta Mia cover the use of the larger Estrella amenities (clubhouse and pool) or Canta Mia only?

The HOA's are about $195 a month but both communities are included. Same as Solera San Tan Valley where we once lived.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Hi Gene and fellow Minnesotan.
I am a bigot on DMB developments. Stare at the 55+ Verrado | Victory is Here. - Verrado . It's being developed as we speak and I was incredibly impressed. See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bQ_TrmUYt4 for the pending developments.

The nice thing about DMB is their commitment to excellence. They have incredibly deep pockets (one owner is the majority holder of the Cambell soup fortune Bennett Dorrance - DMB and Mark Sklar who's family started Master Lock). Think Billionaires.

They do things right and develop legacy developments. We currently live in one of their developments and I cannot say enough great things about it. The backdrop is stunning. I'm 50. In 5 years, I'll see how much infrastructure fills around Buckeye and contemplate a move.

While you are in PHX, take a drive into the Verrado development and specifically the Victory portion. It has an Estrella type feel with rolling hills and mature trees. They have a good deal of infrastructure in place and several models to look at.

That area would be on my short list.