Will the West Valley Grow Despite Luke AFB? (Phoenix, Wickenburg: sales, homes)

[observer53]

Originally Posted by New Horizons

Who's complaining? I simply asked if the base would hinder future growth in the west valley.

If it hasn't to this point in time (and it hasn't) it's not likely to do so in the future. As noted above, there are those who appreciate the proximity of the base.

[Az_Mitch]

I can tell you that EPCOR has already applied to the ACC to provide services to upcoming developments in the area. This power point gives you an idea about the proposed development, http://www.azmag.gov/Documents/WQAC_...esentation.pdf

The development is planned and will be coming. I expect the ACC will approve EPCORs application within the next month and then they will start building the wastewater treatment facility for the new developments.

So, I guess the answer is no, the base will not hinder growth at all. Development is going to start within the next 6 months or so.

[MrsMac]

Originally Posted by New Horizons

Well I guess my question is answered then! The jets will have no affect on future growth in the west valley. In fact the free air show could a selling point. I can picture it on the billboards already, "Starting in the $190s with free airshow". What could be better than that. Perhaps living right next to the freeway where you get to enjoy "free NASCAR racing" at all hours?

Have you ever lived near (or on) an Air Force base? The noise level from the aircraft is nothing like living near a freeway, where the noise is constant. It's not the same at all. Even living a stone's throw from the flight line in base housing (with middle of the night engine tests) wasn't as bad as living next to a freeway.

You seem somewhat perturbed that the answer to your original question isn't what you wanted to hear.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by New Horizons

There is a lot of land throughout the west valley that is undeveloped. I would imagine real estate investors have been itching to build homes and businesses out there. And with the 303 freeway, it would be so accessible.

However the only thing I can see impeding future growth, is Luke AFB, mainly the noise issue.

I realize the AFB was here long before the Phoenix area got so huge. I know Luke brings in alot of money to the local economy. But then so would hundreds of thousands of new residences, and the businesses surrounding them.

What are your all's thoughts on the future outlook of the west valley?

For some, yes. I hear jet noise all around Sky Harbor too. Mysteriously, it didn't hurt development. In summary, Luke isn't going to hold back development. The East Valley developed 1st because it had more topology like mountains. Then the infrastructure filled in and the people followed the jobs. The same thing is happening in the West Valley. The big recession froze growth for a decade and now more normal growth is happening again. It will eventually all fill in and push out even further.

[new2colo]

The only development that seems to have occurred along the 303 corridor are warehouses and a few car dealerships. There were plans for a large mall in that area prior to the recession. Phoenix was just rated as being one of the most oversaturated markets for retail, so I doubt the mall will be constructed ever. With primarily commercial and light industrial uses, I don't see why Luke would impede development at all. I think demand on that side of town is grossly overstated anyway. Nearly all large development in the Valley is east of the 17. There has been a pretty substantial uptick in development within developed areas as opposed to outward sprawl. The pre recession growth in Phoenix is gone for good. Especially in the west valley.

[New Horizons]

Thanks for the replies, especially the ones who addressed the question. I'm glad that the base won't have any affect on the growth. Because I like this city and it's awesome to see it keep growing.

I was also concerned that a possible increase in AFB flights, (sorties?), that my mom's house in Sun City would drop in value. Especially with the F35s. But apparently it shouldn't, which is good to know.

[_Charles_]

Luke AFB was there first and has benefited AZ.
Don't like the noise? OK don't build homes next to the base!

[SluggoF16]

Originally Posted by _Charles_

Luke AFB was there first and has benefited AZ.
Don't like the noise? OK don't build homes next to the base!

It's an argument that's been made for years, at many different military and civilian fields. It's logical, but when one is buying his or her share of the American dream, logic doesn't generally enter into the equation, it's generally emotional. Besides, when do most people look at homes? Weekends, they see one airplane and say "Oh, cool, my kids will love that!" 20 years ago a developer was looking at a subdivision adjacent to the safety corridor off the departure end of runway 21 at Luke, west of Palm Valley in the vicinity of Sarival and Camelback. There would be a lot of noise Monday through Friday. "Noise" is intrusive, as opposed to "sound". A toddler shrieking with delight at a toy and laughing and giggling elicits a very different response from a listener than that same toddler throwing a tantrum, although the decibels may measure the same. And while some may argue that jet noise is the sound of freedom - no arguments here, I flew fighter jets for just over 20 years - it's still noise. That's why it's illogical to place anything underneath a flight path that isn't industrial; residences and loud noise are incompatible. That's why we have RAICUZ studies. Yet it happens all the time.

When Williams AFB was active, there was nothing around it but citrus groves, a GM test track and a couple dairy farms. Higley was a flashing yellow light on Williams Field Road and that was it. When the Department of Defense closed Willy in the early 90s, it was cited for a number of reasons, including encroachment of the airspace by the burgeoning activity at Sky Harbor, encroachment by developers, and the East Valley's ability to absorb the economic loss of Williams AFB. (That wasn't applied to every base, namely Blytheville AFB in Arkansas and Loring in Maine.) As soon as Willy closed and became Williams-Gateway, now Phoenix-Mesa Gateway (IWA), the citrus groves and alfalfa fields got plowed up and became subdivisions. The base didn't close completely, though; the Arizona Air National Guard in Phoenix and Tucson as well as the 56th Wing at Luke used it as a training field for F-16s and KC-135s, and the noise complaints started immediately, from the new subdivisions. As did the smell complaints about the dairy farms. And even about the freshly mowed alfalfa fields and the citrus groves when in bloom. I was on the procedures committee at IWA in the mid-90s when they re-did the F-16 practice procedures, and it was easy at the time, since the GM track was what we usually overflew. Now that is in jeopardy with new developments where the test track used to be.

The same thing happened at Scottsdale Airport in the late 1970s; it was Thunderbird Field in WW II, and it was WAY out there until people started moving in north of Shea and then Cactus in the 1960s. Now it's hard to find the airport on Google Maps since it's surrounded by development. I learned to fly at SDL and we had an odd traffic pattern due to noise considerations. When the FAA announced that the runway would be extended from 4800 to 8200 feet the noise was louder from the west side of Scottsdale Road than the airport.

[CodyW]

The West Valley will continue to develop, in spite of Luke - but Luke WILL have an extreme impact on the physical pattern the growth takes. The noise contouring around the base prohibits the type of development that can take place closest to it.

If you look at a satellite image (Google Maps, Google Earth, etc), you can see the shape of Rancho Gabriela in Surprise is quite unique. This neighborhood follows the Luke AFB noise contour. There a restrictions regarding what type of structures can be closer to the base than that - as you get closer, inhabited dwellings are not prohibited, etc.

So, yes, the area will grow. However, the areas closest to Luke will be, more than likely, restricted to industrial and commercial development ONLY - structures that are not slept in at night. As you get farther away from Luke, things will return to normal development standards, and will grow as usual.

[Java Jolt]

I don't think there's any doubt about it, growth in the west valley is outpacing that of the east valley.

The east valley has the most population and is still growing but not as fast as the west valley.

Both Goodyear and Avondale have populations exceeding 75,000 each and are expected to exceed 100,000 within a few years.

There is more land available for development in the west valley too, some east valley cities are close to reaching their growth capacity unless they decide to grow in a vertical direction.