Why do I get so many weird looks sometimes by how I dress in Phoenix? (Scottsdale: unemployed, buyers)

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

Other than the dumb tourist traps, I've never seen anything here that resembles anything "cowboy culture". What are you referring to?

I take it you havent spent much time up in Carefree or Cave Creek areas? Lots of ranch owners up there who talk the talk and walk the walk.

While on the subject, I was up at McDonalds Ranch (Scottsdale Rd up near Jomax) on a horseback ride, and the guy leading our tour lived in AJ and has his own cattle ranch which he tends to. Born and raised here in teh Valley and has been a cowboy his whole life. The dude was legit, had many stories to tell.

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

Other than the dumb tourist traps, I've never seen anything here that resembles anything "cowboy culture". What are you referring to?

As I said up thread...it all depends on who you associate with. If you aren't around the "horse people", you perception would be that there is no "cowboy culture" around the Valley. Normally you don't see them dressed to this extreme...typically boots, jeans, t-shirt and ball cap unless you are showing. Insisting that there isn't anyone in their right mind that would dress like this in the Valley is not accurate. Although if you look at the money people pay to keep horses you may come to the conclusion that they are in fact NOT in their right mind.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

As I said up thread...it all depends on who you associate with. If you aren't around the "horse people", you perception would be that there is no "cowboy culture" around the Valley. Normally you don't see them dressed to this extreme...typically boots, jeans, t-shirt and ball cap unless you are showing. Insisting that there isn't anyone in their right mind that would dress like this in the Valley is not accurate. Although if you look at the money people pay to keep horses you may come to the conclusion that they are in fact NOT in their right mind.

Right. Unless you're immersed in "cowboy culture" there is none. That's not the case in many other (smaller) western towns.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

I take it you havent spent much time up in Carefree or Cave Creek areas? Lots of ranch owners up there who talk the talk and walk the walk.

While on the subject, I was up at McDonalds Ranch (Scottsdale Rd up near Jomax) on a horseback ride, and the guy leading our tour lived in AJ and has his own cattle ranch which he tends to. Born and raised here in teh Valley and has been a cowboy his whole life. The dude was legit, had many stories to tell.

I was actually up in Tonto this weekend and grabbed lunch in Cave Creek on the way home. Most of it is just cheesy western themed restaurants and bars. I suppose there are several real ranchers up there surrounded by the Maserati driving country club crowd though.

[KurtAZ]

I don't know about "immersed" per se. There are plenty of professionals in the Valley that don't wear wingtips except to the office. Some of the wealthiest people I know (and they put some of those "Maserati driving country club crowd" to shame) drive 10 year old trucks and own more acreage than anyone would suspect. Just cause they talk slow and don't care about labels doesn't mean they aren't ridiculously successful.

You are absolutely correct regarding Cave Creek/Carefree though. Before Troon North and Desert Mountain were built, that was all ranch land. North of Cave Creek was all ranch land. Head toward I-17 on Carefree Highway...that all used to be ranch land and home to some of the best Reiners in the country. Now it is all developed, sold off and broken up. There was a time the ranch hands would ride into the Buffalo Chip (one of those "cheesy western themed bars" you referenced), tied up the horses at the hitching post...that is why it is still there...and let the horses take them home at closing time. You won't see that anymore but some of them still live around there. Just closer to New River now than Cave Creek as the land prices went up and the yuppies pushed them out.

[i'm not a cookie]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

Right. Unless you're immersed in "cowboy culture" there is none. That's not the case in many other (smaller) western towns.

I agree, if we are going to be technical in defining what constitutes cowboy culture in a metro area then you could say there is cowboy culture in Los Angels and San Diego too.

[Jukesgrrl]

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

... You are absolutely correct regarding Cave Creek/Carefree though. Before Troon North and Desert Mountain were built, that was all ranch land. North of Cave Creek was all ranch land. Head toward I-17 on Carefree Highway...that all used to be ranch land and home to some of the best Reiners in the country. Now it is all developed, sold off and broken up. There was a time the ranch hands would ride into the Buffalo Chip (one of those "cheesy western themed bars" you referenced), tied up the horses at the hitching post...that is why it is still there...and let the horses take them home at closing time. You won't see that anymore but some of them still live around there. Just closer to New River now than Cave Creek as the land prices went up and the yuppies pushed them out.

So, you're saying that ranchers get treated the same way artists are treated in every city in the U.S.?

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

I was actually up in Tonto this weekend and grabbed lunch in Cave Creek on the way home. Most of it is just cheesy western themed restaurants and bars. I suppose there are several real ranchers up there surrounded by the Maserati driving country club crowd though.

Some of those establishments have been there a long time. I hope noone is sincerely expecting cowboy culture to exist in big numbers in 2016. I mean, c'mon. However, cowboy cutlture does exist here in the Valley. To say it doesnt exist is rather ignorant.

There are real ranchers all over the Valley, from East to West, North to South. And youre correct, Im sure the ranchers in areas like North Scottsdale are surrounded by Maserati-driving country clubbers, but that doesnt make the ranchers any less a rancher, does it? Back in IL there were small farming communities that were bordered by Bentley-driving, richie rich suburbs. That doesnt mean those farmers arent farmers.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl

So, you're saying that ranchers get treated the same way artists are treated in every city in the U.S.?

Except ranchers actually work. lol They dont splash some paint in random patterns on canvas, then try to sell it to gullible buyers for ridiculous prices.

[ScottsdaleMark]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

Except ranchers actually work. lol They dont splash some paint in random patterns on canvas, then try to sell it to gullible buyers for ridiculous prices.

Being an artist is a very hard and challenging job. Imagine if you were only paid when you sold something, and any success you had depended on being original, creative, unique and coming up with things you'd never done before that were attractive to other people in general. This is why many people who attempt to become artists never really succeed -- because they can't find anyone to buy it, or at least not at respectable price points that make it an actual business venture.

You may not appreciate art but don't say that it's not work because succeeding in art is about as challenging as any pursuit you can tackle, I'd say it's up there with trying to succeed financially as an actor/actress, etc. There are many internationally appreciated and recognized artists who even still have to supplement their income by being professors, working at museums/galleries/etc., just to pay the bills. There are also plenty of people working jobs totally unrelated to art who are attempting to be artists ... some of decent quality and many of dubious quality, of course, just like any popular pursuit. It is a very competitive field.

Ranching is a hard life but despite all the risks, many families manage to hold on to and work their ranches for generations. If you work hard and don't over-leverage yourself, you can ride out the dry years and the down cattle markets. It's a bigger business enterprise of course than an individual artist, but the land is incredibly valuable and if you have enough of it and don't take financial risks, generally you can find a way to keep working it and hold on to it if you know what you're doing. But this is why ranches stay in families for generations, whilst artists come and go from the scene quickly due to lack of success or inability to sustain success. There's no "book" on how to succeed in art, whereas there are plenty of examples of ranching success that one can pattern an operation after. Whereas in art, if you copy someone else, your art is only good to hang on motel room wall.

I say all this as someone who has both ranchers and artists in my family tree.