Will 16 SEER air conditioning systems become standard on new Phoenix area homes? (apartment, appliances)

[DougStark]

Even if kell490's info is correct, how often is it below 40 degrees in metro Phx? Not that often (esp. this winter..) A gas furnace in Phx seems like overkill..

[kell490]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

Well, no offense, but the guys complaining about heat pumps in your case, are also the guys who usually install them with the shortest (cheapest) line set possible, often right under a freaking bedroom window. I've seen it hundreds of times in Phoenix, so there are a lot of culprits out there. Further, on the "cheap" heat pumps (goodmans), the defrost is a timed event - you can *set* the timer for between every 30 minutes to every two hours. Heat pumps are still fairly efficient even with a quarter inch of ice on them & you won't ever see anything but a little frost on one in our climate, even if you only let it defrost every two hours. My hvac guy is fairly conscientious, but I follow him around after every install & set the timers myself. 30 minutes is the default & I can't blame goodman for setting them there (a they ship them to Minnesota too ), but this is pretty basic stuff in our climate 90 minutes or even 2 hours between defrosts is fine.

Further, the newest heat pumps almost universally use "scroll" compressors, compared to the older "Bristol" compressors, well, there is no comparison - when a Bristol compressor reverses, you'll hear a screech for a half a block. Scrolls are way quieter when reversing (and you can minimize even that if you get one with a noise blanket - $40 or so).

When it's 28 out they blow cold air for a long time probably up to 10 minutes while it struggles then when it hits the set temp after an hour of running shuts off for 10-15 minutes comes back on does it all over again blows cold air for 10 minutes runs for an hour and again. My last home gas/AC hot air in less then 10 seconds. Gas water heater, gas clothing driers, gas stoves, are all better then electric not to mention gas fireplace, and fire pit. So why would I want all that and a heat pump It makes no logical sense to me. If the home was built without Gas then you have no choice. I don't know why you guys are in love with heat pumps I will gladly pay what ever gas cost to have it I won't ever own a home again that doesn't have gas. Obviously you own an AC repair business what does it matter if one has gas/AC or heat pump you still make money repairing both?

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by kell490

When it's 28 out they blow cold air for a long time probably up to 10 minutes while it struggles then when it hits the set temp after an hour of running shuts off for 10-15 minutes comes back on does it all over again blows cold air for 10 minutes runs for an hour and again. My last home gas/AC hot air in less then 10 seconds. Gas water heater, gas clothing driers, gas stoves, are all better then electric not to mention gas fireplace, and fire pit. So why would I want all that and a heat pump It makes no logical sense to me. If the home was built without Gas then you have no choice. I don't know why you guys are in love with heat pumps I will gladly pay what ever gas cost to have it I won't ever own a home again that doesn't have gas. Obviously you own an AC repair business what does it matter if one has gas/AC or heat pump you still make money repairing both?

Nope! Zippy is the quintessential DIY guy (if he wants to). He was dealt a great deal of common sense on all things related to the inner workings of the home. Over the years on C-D, he has demonstrated that he has a strong desire to technically understand the trade-offs. If I was you, I'd be taking copious notes. Better yet, PM him. He has sorted through some superb subcontractors. Better yet, Zippy is cheap ("value oriented" sounds better). I've pinged him for a few of his subs. I was delighted with his subcontractor recommendations.

[Pink Jazz]

Still, there has to be a reason why many tract home builders continue to install gas furnaces despite the perceived advantages of heat pumps. Some even experimented with heat pumps but later reverted to gas furnaces. Cost isn't the reason, because an AC+gas furnace generally costs about the same as a heat pump+air handler.

[kell490]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

Still, there has to be a reason why many tract home builders continue to install gas furnaces despite the perceived advantages of heat pumps. Some even experimented with heat pumps but later reverted to gas furnaces. Cost isn't the reason, because an AC+gas furnace generally costs about the same as a heat pump+air handler.

It's the other advantages of gas installed in the home so why would you put a heat pump in a home which has gas lines installed? That's why they are putting AC/Gas in the home. Tract homes which were electric only are not desirable to buyers, and right now home builders have to do all they can to make them desirable to buyers. Some who reply here who perceive that an all electric home is better are the minority most buyers want gas in the home. What I don't understand is why someone would not want a AC/Gas heater over a heat pump when gas lines are in the home. The home I'm in now never had gas lines, so it's not possible.

[ScottsdaleMark]

I wonder if the gas company pays any kind of incentive or provides any kind of infrastructure/construction to encourage the builders to put the pipes in? If anyone knows about this, please fill me in.

I don't know the technicalities or legalities of the situation but it sure seems like it would make a lot of sense for Southwest Gas to want as many new homes to be using gas as possible, right?

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by ScottsdaleMark

I wonder if the gas company pays any kind of incentive or provides any kind of infrastructure/construction to encourage the builders to put the pipes in? If anyone knows about this, please fill me in.

I don't know the technicalities or legalities of the situation but it sure seems like it would make a lot of sense for Southwest Gas to want as many new homes to be using gas as possible, right?

I don't have any inside dirt, but I did inquire about having a gas main run literally across the street to my house a few years back & the gas company wasn't at all receptive (I think it was SW Gas) - it took two months to get a quote and I think they were in the area of $7k-ish .. The people that I spoke with really acted like they could care less if I did it, and seemed to prefer that I didn't do it.

[BigEinAz]

My new house in Mesa has electric heat. I also have gas water heater, gas dryer hook up and gas cooktop. It had to be configured this way to be an SRP Certified home. I protested and was told that electric demand is way down in winter and therefore cheaper to run than gas. Time will tell . . .

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by kell490

It's the other advantages of gas installed in the home so why would you put a heat pump in a home which has gas lines installed? That's why they are putting AC/Gas in the home. Tract homes which were electric only are not desirable to buyers, and right now home builders have to do all they can to make them desirable to buyers. Some who reply here who perceive that an all electric home is better are the minority most buyers want gas in the home. What I don't understand is why someone would not want a AC/Gas heater over a heat pump when gas lines are in the home. The home I'm in now never had gas lines, so it's not possible.

I'd seriously consider putting a heat pump in a home that had gas service because it's one less thing to go wrong ( the gas part of the setup is really a completely different machine, even if they're integrated into one "box" ), you need to run a gas line and either a chimney or an air-intake/exhaust to the unit (cost) , there's basically no cost savings over the life of the unit in our climate (you're almost always heating with off-peak/nighttime kW/hours, which are cheap), even if it's 25 degrees out and the heat pump has to run constantly, that doesn't hurt it, or reduce it's lifespan, it might even increase it over leaving it dormant for six months & expecting it to work) & last but not least, when in Rome, act like a Roman - hvac guys out here don't work on furnaces much, many don't understand them or stock any parts for them on the truck, so if it dies, you may not have heat for a while. Even the bad hvac guys out here can usually duct-tape & bubble-gum a heat pump well enough to run at least until your check clears.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by BigEinAz

My new house in Mesa has electric heat. I also have gas water heater, gas dryer hook up and gas cooktop. It had to be configured this way to be an SRP Certified home. I protested and was told that electric demand is way down in winter and therefore cheaper to run than gas. Time will tell . . .

Whoever told you that the Energy Star Homes certification specifically requires a heat pump is lying to you. The Energy Star Homes certification specifies minimum efficiencies for heating and cooling based on climate zones, but does not specifically mandate one type of heating system over another (regardless of the climate zone). Fulton Homes uses gas furnaces in most of their communities except in those without gas service, yet they won both the 2015 SRP Champions of Energy Efficiency award and the EPA Energy Star Partner of the Year award. Many other Energy Star builders also use gas furnaces wherever gas service is available.