NIMBY's stop Donald Trump's Hotel Plans

[PoppySead]

I agree, it's nice to be able to afford a good view but most here would have rather had the job. People will complain about not having enough work as long as it's not in their back yard. My biggest pet peeve is NIMBY action, it's vocal action only. Open the borders, fire the police, yadda, yadda, as long as it doesn't affect my view, safety, or my career I'll fight for it, just toss them a monthly stipend, that way their potential job doesn't affect my view of the mountain. They have no regard for the bigger picture. Looks like this tide will be out for a long long time until of course the tsunami eventually becomes of it, and it will.

[jdahunt]

Originally Posted by wit-nit

I think they were afraid Trump would want many tax breaks, build the unit, file bankruptcy and leave many sub contractors not being paid. That's a pattern with the Trumpster.

Pattern.....for a pattern to exist you have to have a set of numbers with data showing as much....since that is your opinion surely you have the data backing that up and isn't just following what you've seen or heard from other people without actually knowing what the factual data is....we await your numbers...

[jdahunt]

[quote=locolife;43421228]

Originally Posted by stevek64

If money can be made/both sides benefit, "attitude" and "business style" means zero. /quote]

If money can be made on both sides there are 4 other people lining up to take that exact same business you're going after. If you're a dick and continually screw over others, nobody is going to be lining up to work with you in the future. I've seen this happen first hand supporting large scale activity for over 15 years. Relationships are HUGE.

Trump came in here with a terrible attitude and look what happened, not a damn thing. Many other developers have managed to get things done by working with the public, he refused to budge. Biltmore was just fine without him and others have managed to make plenty of money in that exact same area of town. Optima comes to mind... and there are many more.

So you think that of the hundreds of deals that Trump has done that a huge majority of them didn't benefit both sides.....then please explain why hundreds if not thousands of people or entities want to get into business with him???

[wit-nit]

Read the full story...bullying, mafia ties, threats by Trumps people:
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...lans/81229026/

[wit-nit]

Originally Posted by jdahunt

Pattern.....for a pattern to exist you have to have a set of numbers with data showing as much....since that is your opinion surely you have the data backing that up and isn't just following what you've seen or heard from other people without actually knowing what the factual data is....we await your numbers...

But Trump could not keep pace with his debts on the three casinos. Six months later, the Taj defaulted on interest payments to bondholders as his finances went into a tailspin. In July 1991, Trump's Taj Mahal filed for bankruptcy, the first and most significant of the four that his companies have experienced.Jan 18, 2016

For starters....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...9eb_story.html

Fact-checking claims about Donald Trump's four bankruptcies | PolitiFact

Donald Trump bankruptcy: Everything you want to know - Aug. 31, 2015
Trump has never filed for personal bankruptcy. But he has filed four business bankruptcies, which Bankruptcy.com says makes Trump the top filer in recent decades. All of them were centered around casinos he used to own in Atlantic City. They were all Chapter 11 restructurings, which lets a company stay in business while shedding debt it owes to banks, employees and suppliers.

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by wit-nit

But Trump could not keep pace with his debts on the three casinos. Six months later, the Taj defaulted on interest payments to bondholders as his finances went into a tailspin. In July 1991, Trump's Taj Mahal filed for bankruptcy, the first and most significant of the four that his companies have experienced.Jan 18, 2016

For starters....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...9eb_story.html

Fact-checking claims about Donald Trump's four bankruptcies | PolitiFact

Donald Trump bankruptcy: Everything you want to know - Aug. 31, 2015
Trump has never filed for personal bankruptcy. But he has filed four business bankruptcies, which Bankruptcy.com says makes Trump the top filer in recent decades. All of them were centered around casinos he used to own in Atlantic City. They were all Chapter 11 restructurings, which lets a company stay in business while shedding debt it owes to banks, employees and suppliers.

I think the United States is the winner in the debt party. Just an FYI. The national debt has grown at an average of 9.3% per year since 2001, I think Trumps record is better than that. Anything is worth a try at this point.
Trump was smart to do so during the recession, it's better than getting a bail out from you and me, I won't name names.

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by locolife

If money can be made on both sides there are 4 other people lining up to take that exact same business you're going after. If you're a dick and continually screw over others, nobody is going to be lining up to work with you in the future. I've seen this happen first hand supporting large scale activity for over 15 years. Relationships are HUGE.

Trump came in here with a terrible attitude and look what happened, not a damn thing. Many other developers have managed to get things done by working with the public, he refused to budge. Biltmore was just fine without him and others have managed to make plenty of money in that exact same area of town. Optima comes to mind... and there are many more.

I don't want to get into an emotional issue on trump as it's clear where you stand/how you feel about him. My point is to stick with the objective side and it's this.....in the business world, if both sides can benefit on a business deal, it will happen, yes. History has shown many unlikely people/businesses getting together who aren't fond/"like" each other striking deals because it makes $ for both sides. Like/hate him, trump has been enormously successful and has made enormous amounts of money doing so. Like any honest businessman will tell you, they all have had their share of failures but he has had more big successes which is how to win in the game of business. He has reached a level few reach in the business world so he knows what he's doing and has proven he knows how to work with people, make deals, and lots of money. As for the Phoenix venture not going through, we don't know what made the deal fail. You're assuming it's attitude. And I wouldn't trust a "he said/she said" article. In the world of politics/business, there's spin galore. And throw in the common media bias of every stripe these days, well, I think you get the point I'm trying to make....unless you or I were there.....

And don't forget "both sides" often = politicians involved somewhere and we know that throws in an entirely new form of spin/dynamic of the wonderful game of "politics". I think in this case, one or both sides didn't benefit $, or a politician(s) scared for their reelection chances given all the supposed outcry from residents. And remember.....this happened many years ago. If politicians/the community really wanted this type of complex in their community, they would have already secured another builder/developer they "like" more by now. It hasn't happened. Given this fact, to me the only logical conclusion is they simply don't want such a complex in their "backyard".

That's all. The rest is scripted reality.

Originally Posted by jdahunt

So you think that of the hundreds of deals that Trump has done that a huge majority of them didn't benefit both sides.....then please explain why hundreds if not thousands of people or entities want to get into business with him???

I think you might have misunderstood my point. Hopefully the above clarifies.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by stevek64

Don't they have a high rise hotel(former Ritz-carlton), biltmore fashion park, etc. in that area? Seems like the plan would have been a nice fit in that area. I find it hard to believe that the citizens alone of that area were the reason they stopped progress.

They were the reason because I vividly remember the incident at the time. They were the reason that the tower was not built. And the location was perfect. It was going to be built next to the Esplanade where the Marco Polo supper club and Hard Rock was located. It was a classic Arizona NIMBY move. Imagine if that had been built. The area is nice right now but would have attracted a lot more investment.

It's incidents like that which really separate us from cities like Dallas. In Dallas and Houston, that would have been built immediately with no issues. In Arizona, you have these naive NIMBYs who are clueless and these same NIMBYs will take it upon themselves to criticize Arizona for lacking jobs and not having enough quality white collar jobs. You can't have it both ways.

The good news...a lot of the NIMBY's are dying off and the younger generation particularly the millenials want to see Phoenix take the next step and are not trying to preserve small town status.

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

They were the reason because I vividly remember the incident at the time. They were the reason that the tower was not built. And the location was perfect. It was going to be built next to the Esplanade where the Marco Polo supper club and Hard Rock was located. It was a classic Arizona NIMBY move. Imagine if that had been built. The area is nice right now but would have attracted a lot more investment.

It's incidents like that which really separate us from cities like Dallas. In Dallas and Houston, that would have been built immediately with no issues. In Arizona, you have these naive NIMBYs who are clueless and these same NIMBYs will take it upon themselves to criticize Arizona for lacking jobs and not having enough quality white collar jobs. You can't have it both ways.

The good news...a lot of the NIMBY's are dying off and the younger generation particularly the millenials want to see Phoenix take the next step and are not trying to preserve small town status.

I agree.

Tough crowd for sure!

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by locolife

Downtown Phoenix has nothing to do with this tower. It was in the Biltmore area and if anything would have only continued to draw energy away from downtown.

Its just a hotel, which downtown already has enough of, and not enough people to fill. Biltmore already has the Fashion Square, etc. I think the proposal made perfect sense. Hence the reason Trump is a billionaire and we're just nobodys posting on C-D.