Diamondbacks looking to leave Chase Field citing lack of funds for Stadium Improvement due from Maricopa County (Phoenix: fit in, sale)
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Just looking elsewhere for funding. If the city doesn't bite next stop will be the state or a tribe. What we will not see the organization seek any manner of private financing, at least if any and all sources of free money are exhausted. Even then they'd sooner move than open their own wallet.
It would be absolutely asinine and counterproductive if any of the sports teams moved to tribal land. Pro sports help define a city, and a city's definition is centered around the core/downtown area. Therefore, pro sports belong in a centralized area ... not out in the far flung 'burbs or on land belonging to tribes. Give me a break!
Chase Field is highly regarded as a state of the art facility, so there's no reason why the DBacks need a new stadium. Besides, the team is worth $840 million, so if Chase Field is in need of upgrades & repairs, let them fork over the money themselves!
It would be absolutely asinine and counterproductive if any of the sports teams moved to tribal land. Pro sports help define a city, and a city's definition is centered around the core/downtown area. Therefore, pro sports belong in a centralized area ... not out in the far flung 'burbs or on land belonging to tribes. Give me a break!
While I agree 100%, the Braves must be the outlier, since the are leaving their "near downtown" central stadium and moving to Cobb County and out near the northern suburbs, where supposed the majority of their season ticket base is located. Definitely bizarre, but they wanted to own and control all of the land around them and supposedly couldn't do that with the Turner Field location.
It would be absolutely asinine and counterproductive if any of the sports teams moved to tribal land. Pro sports help define a city, and a city's definition is centered around the core/downtown area. Therefore, pro sports belong in a centralized area ... not out in the far flung 'burbs or on land belonging to tribes. Give me a break!
Chase Field is highly regarded as a state of the art facility, so there's no reason why the DBacks need a new stadium. Besides, the team is worth $840 million, so if Chase Field is in need of upgrades & repairs, let them fork over the money themselves!
Seems the decisions of many major sports teams goes against locating sports parks in downtown arenas. This is about pro football teams but it's the same for many baseball teams:
Personally, I find it much more convenient to go to a sports stadium in the suburbs as they have easy ample parking. And roads in/out of the stadium are usually designed to get cars in/out of the stadium quicker than a downtown area. Downtown areas often have scattered parking, often not enough, and more expensive. And given we are a car culture many people don't like taking public transportation to get to the stadium for many reasons, ie public transportation doesn't reach the vast majority of people in the suburbs, taking it is often a hybrid task of taking one's car to a public transportation pickup point, etc.
Personally, I find it much more convenient to go to a sports stadium in the suburbs as they have easy ample parking. And roads in/out of the stadium are usually designed to get cars in/out of the stadium quicker than a downtown area. Downtown areas often have scattered parking, often not enough, and more expensive. And given we are a car culture many people don't like taking public transportation to get to the stadium for many reasons, ie public transportation doesn't reach the vast majority of people in the suburbs, taking it is often a hybrid task of taking one's car to a public transportation pickup point, etc.
A lot of it depends on the location of the venues. I personally find the Westgate area very inconvenient to get to, and this is from somebody who lives in a fairly centrally located area (Camelback East). Many others live in the east Valley, and my understanding is that more hockey fans live in Scottsdale & the east Valley than in the west ... so consider how inconvenient the location is for them. One of the reasons the Coyotes have a poor attendance record is the location of the arena.
Granted, I don't go downtown very much lately, but you're correct about the parking hassle & the expense. To avoid all that, the few times I see a need to go downtown (usually for concerts or games), I can leave my car at home, avoid the parking issues, and take the light rail. This is not an option at Westgate or on tribal land. Infrastructure is a big issue as well. The cost of building/widening roads, improving utility lines, and eventually increasing transit to a suburban area (Glendale's long term goal is light rail to Westgate) is pretty steep in comparison to an area like downtown which already has established infrastructure.
And then there is always the issue with image. Cities like Chicago & L.A. (to name just two) have baseball stadiums in a centralized area with backdrops of their skylines. Moving our venues to the 'burbs or tribal land does would tarnish our image because instead of the skyline, our brown mountains & desert would be the backdrop ... and that isn't what a large city like Phoenix should be constantly be putting on display. Having these venues in a centralized area has many more advantages over a far flung area.
Personally, I find it much more convenient to go to a sports stadium in the suburbs as they have easy ample parking. And roads in/out of the stadium are usually designed to get cars in/out of the stadium quicker than a downtown area. Downtown areas often have scattered parking, often not enough, and more expensive. And given we are a car culture many people don't like taking public transportation to get to the stadium for many reasons, ie public transportation doesn't reach the vast majority of people in the suburbs, taking it is often a hybrid task of taking one's car to a public transportation pickup point, etc.
I'd have to disagree with you about stadiums being more convenient in the 'burb's with this MAJOR disclaimer. If efficient public transportation (and what I'm really talking about is some flavor of rail or trolly service) is near the stadium a downtown location is hands down better.
I'm loathe to pony up dollar after dollar to club owners who build parks in their own self-contained compounds. Give me the option to dine at a locally owned restaurant near the park, give me the option to bang down some beers served up by someone other than who cut the best deal with the stadium owner. Speaking of drinking, yea, let me have public transport get my sorry ass home rather than hitting the roads after a game.
I'll be the first to admit this doesn't happen in a vacuum. It takes real work and planning to get all the gears to mesh. I've had the good fortune to visit just about every MLB park and the worst one's (Rangers, K.C., Brewers) have been little fiefdom's whose location might as well have been selected by throwing darts on a map. No attempt to integrate with the city they presume to serve.
Personally, after a lifetime of spending a sizable amount of discretionary income on attending sports events unless team owners make a compelling effort to make my visit easy, fun and affordable I'm at a point where my 75" TV satisfies needs. I suspect I'm not the only one.
A lot of it depends on the location of the venues. I personally find the Westgate area very inconvenient to get to, and this is from somebody who lives in a fairly centrally located area (Camelback East). Many others live in the east Valley, and my understanding is that more hockey fans live in Scottsdale & the east Valley than in the west ... so consider how inconvenient the location is for them. One of the reasons the Coyotes have a poor attendance record is the location of the arena.
Granted, I don't go downtown very much lately, but you're correct about the parking hassle & the expense. To avoid all that, the few times I see a need to go downtown (usually for concerts or games), I can leave my car at home, avoid the parking issues, and take the light rail. This is not an option at Westgate or on tribal land. Infrastructure is a big issue as well. The cost of building/widening roads, improving utility lines, and eventually increasing transit to a suburban area (Glendale's long term goal is light rail to Westgate) is pretty steep in comparison to an area like downtown which already has established infrastructure.
And then there is always the issue with image. Cities like Chicago & L.A. (to name just two) have baseball stadiums in a centralized area with backdrops of their skylines. Moving our venues to the 'burbs or tribal land does would tarnish our image because instead of the skyline, our brown mountains & desert would be the backdrop ... and that isn't what a large city like Phoenix should be constantly be putting on display. Having these venues in a centralized area has many more advantages over a far flung area.
I wonder if the attendance numbers for the coyotes would improve if they moved to downtown Phoenix/how much location really pays a role. I say this looking at the diamondbacks and suns attendance numbers, both centrally located downtown stadiums. An awful lot of empty seats I see often. Here's the data showing they are both towards the bottom in attendance numbers:
Certainly the light rail is nice to get to downtown, especially when one can pick one up near their house.
San Francisco 49's just built a brand new stadium far away from downtown as did the cowboys some years ago. Perhaps that's a trend to save money/get some suburban city on the hook to pony up some tax dollars more than anything? I'm not sure but there seems to be many stadiums, and new one's, that are far outside the city core of some major cities. I'm guessing if taxpayers start complaining about funding stadiums, tribal land might be the next frontier for them. I can see +/- to a stadium being located on tribal land but to me the biggest positive is leaving the taxpayer out of the picture for the most part...at least one would think....
Quote:
Originally Posted by take57
I'd have to disagree with you about stadiums being more convenient in the 'burb's with this MAJOR disclaimer. If efficient public transportation (and what I'm really talking about is some flavor of rail or trolly service) is near the stadium a downtown location is hands down better.
I'm loathe to pony up dollar after dollar to club owners who build parks in their own self-contained compounds. Give me the option to dine at a locally owned restaurant near the park, give me the option to bang down some beers served up by someone other than who cut the best deal with the stadium owner. Speaking of drinking, yea, let me have public transport get my sorry ass home rather than hitting the roads after a game.
I'll be the first to admit this doesn't happen in a vacuum. It takes real work and planning to get all the gears to mesh. I've had the good fortune to visit just about every MLB park and the worst one's (Rangers, K.C., Brewers) have been little fiefdom's whose location might as well have been selected by throwing darts on a map. No attempt to integrate with the city they presume to serve.
Personally, after a lifetime of spending a sizable amount of discretionary income on attending sports events unless team owners make a compelling effort to make my visit easy, fun and affordable I'm at a point where my 75" TV satisfies needs. I suspect I'm not the only one.
I'm against taxpayers funding any stadium that's used by a private entity/business no matter where it's located.
Sure, something like a light rail certainly makes it easier to get to a stadium, especially if it's downtown. And yes, a light rail/public transportation certainly makes having a few drinks much easier/safer all around instead of driving.
I think the building/locating a stadium is more of a $ thing/often political more than anything and that's where it begins/ends. Unfortunately.
While we aren't huge sports fans, we do like to catch a game live now and then. Spring training games are especially nice on many fronts. But like yourself, usually it's just nice to catch the game on the big screen in our own home. Something to be said for not having to deal with parking, potential obnoxious drunks, and people spilling drinks on your back who can't control their alcohol. But I suppose that's what the last row of seats are for in a stadium....escape.
I wonder if the attendance numbers for the coyotes would improve if they moved to downtown Phoenix/how much location really pays a role. I say this looking at the diamondbacks and suns attendance numbers, both centrally located downtown stadiums. An awful lots of empty seats I see often. Here's the data showing they are both towards the bottom in attendance numbers:
Certainly the light rail is nice to get to downtown, especially when one can pick one up near their house.
San Francisco 49's just built a brand new stadium far away from downtown as did the cowboys some years ago. Perhaps that's a trend to save money/get some suburban city on the hook to pony up some tax dollars more than anything? I'm not sure but there seems to be many stadiums, and new one's, that are far outside the city core of some major cities. I'm guessing if taxpayers start complaining about funding stadiums, tribal land might be the next frontier for them. I can see +/- to a stadium being located on tribal land but to me the biggest positive is leaving the taxpayer out of the picture for the most part...at least one would think....
I'm against taxpayers funding any stadium that's used by a private entity/business no matter where it's located.
Sure, something like a light rail certainly makes it easier to get to a stadium, especially if it's downtown. And yes, a light rail/public transportation certainly makes having a few drinks much easier/safer all around instead of driving.
I think the building/locating a stadium is more of a $ thing/often political more than anything and that's where it begins/ends. Unfortunately.
While we aren't huge sports fans, we do like to catch a game live now and then. Spring training games are especially nice on many fronts. But like yourself, usually it's just nice to catch the game on the big screen in our own home. Something to be said for not having to deal with parking, potential obnoxious drunks, and people spilling drinks on your back who can't control their alcohol. But I suppose that's what the last row of seats are for in a stadium....escape.
While I always appreciate how much source citation you do when you post, the Suns don't have bad attendance as a part of their location. The Suns are awful and are nationally critiqued by our own alumni (Barkley) weekly. The Suns would have no attendance if they were anywhere else.
While I always appreciate how much source citation you do when you post, the Suns don't have bad attendance as a part of their location. The Suns are awful and are nationally critiqued by our own alumni (Barkley) weekly. The Suns would have no attendance if they were anywhere else.
yep, their record certainly doesn't help. Ugh.
On an aside, I read an opinion piece once on the topic on why our pro teams overall have low/lower attendance compared to many other cities. Besides the obvious that a good chunk of our population is from somewhere else and often they keep their allegiance to their "home" team, the author brought up the point of our weather being very nice most of the year which keeps people doing more outdoor type things rather than wanting to sit in a stadium watching sports. How much is attributed to this is anyone's guess but I thought it was an interesting point.
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