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Location: The edge of the world and all of Western civilization
984 posts, read 1,197,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64
dvxhd, again, I can only give you my views on the matter. What other people believe/what they have done and throughout history does not = me so that's non-sequitur on the matter. I or you or anyone can't control/change the behavior/history of people who inhabited this land hundreds/thousands of years ago. I or you aren't responsible for their actions/beliefs. We don't live in the past. We can only live in the now and regardless if you agree with what they did or not, civilized societies live by the current rule of law ....today.....now....and that's the laws we should follow and respect.
As for other scholarships, I'm not sure what you are referring to in other scholarships that "would bother me", because they are for single groups, again generalizing/making assumptions what my views are on the matter. My main issue is that they should be given to legal citizens. In regards to "far more dangerous people than Mexicans", again, the point of this thread/topic is scholarships for illegal aliens. I'm not singling out Mexicans....I don't care if it's illegal Mexicans, Canadians, Russians, Chinese, etc.....they are all unworthy of a scholarship in my view simply because they are in the country illegally. Notice this thread title and poll isn't about mexican illegal immigrants and a college scholarship.....it's illegal immigrants, all of them. You're again taking this topic out of context/generalizing. And it sounds like you're trying to use this thread to make bigger points on your world view on matters.
On the topic, I find it interesting you generalize often in making your points, call other people racists, etc. yet you generalize about others and most recently in your last post, an entire group of people, evangelicals. And I'm not an evangelical so I say this from an objective place. Generalizing about groups of people is a big step towards a word you like to use....racism. And you've been very wrong in generalizing about me so far.
Why is the answer always the same in regards to American aggression and butchery toward Natives: it's in the past, get over it? And yes, it was in the past... but these incidents have had a tendency to repeat themselves, because people in this country can't seem to learn from the past. What happened in the past is in the past, but you seem keen on letting it perpetuate in the present and inevitably, the future. And there you go again: and that's the laws we should follow and respect. That's why I mentioned a few other laws you and many others likely habitually break. You can't really criticize people for breaking laws if you do it too. Unlike the Bible, you can't pick and choose which to follow, because there are real consequences to violating ANYTHING on the books.
The attitude toward illegal immigrants is directed mainly at Mexicans. I did notice that you didn't address harassment I've faced, even though I'm not Latino. This rhetoric is really fueling that attitude in people. Again, what's in the past is in the past, which didn't stop this country from allowing Japanese internment camps after allowing the Indian Schools after allowing slavery on plantations, etc. I have no faith in this country to do the right thing.
Here's the difference between me and you: I own up to being prejudiced against evangelicals and any more religious people. I think they're obnoxious, untrustworthy, annoying, dangerous, bloodthirsty, gullible, superstitious, hateful people. The thing is that I can admit it, whereas most people won't admit to racism and/or xenophobia. The difference though is that I've had enough experience with them to know not to trust them. I have been physically assaulted by them while they acted in the name of Jesus. I have heard the tax-exempt messages their leaders spread in their political action committees... I mean, churches. I have known LGBT people who've lost their entire families because evangelicals would rather lose their child than have him/her be part of that community. They push for things like these religious liberty laws that are being signed into effect, and Arizona can't really look down its nose at any state that's legalized them because politicians here did try to have one passed though it was vetoed. These people go to great lengths to specifically target groups they disagree with so that they can discriminate against them. But god forbid you call them homophobic, because they deny it to the end... much like anti-immigrants don't like to be called racist and xenophobic. Actions speak louder than words, I suppose.
Yeah but the difference is they didn't hop a fence. They were brought here by their parents when they were children. They didn't actively choose to break the law. They were kids, they were not adults trying to work the system.
"Up to 120 unaccompanied youths are arriving each day, officials say, a number that has tripled over the last five years and that by some estimates could soon reach 60,000 a year."
"Brian Portillo Hernandez, 17, was one of several youths who appeared in a courtroom here in the border city of Harlingen earlier this month after being apprehended by U.S. border authorities."
A 17 year old and a teenager knows what's up and indeed "actively" and knowingly broke the law on their own. And as the above article states, they are doing it in big numbers.
Yeah but the difference is they didn't hop a fence. They were brought here by their parents when they were children. They didn't actively choose to break the law. They were kids, they were not adults trying to work the system.
Many so-called illegal immigrants fall under this category and I totally agree with you, why punish the children?
People who desire to flee their homeland and seek residency in the United States should go through the legal process, and I'm not in favor of full-scale amnesty but I think there has to be a middle ground.
Conservatives are angry about how much it costs the government to provide benefits to these people but have they considered how much it costs for deportation, increasing border security, and building their beloved wall?
Have they considered how many demeaning jobs undocumented workers do willingly that most Americans refuse to do?
Conservatives are angry about how much it costs the government to provide benefits to these people but have they considered how much it costs for deportation, increasing border security, and building their beloved wall?
I'm not angry at the costs. I simply feel it's a slap in the face to people who play by the rules, migrate here legally, and get the "sucker" label in capital letters. And the fact we have no idea who we are letting in our country who waltz over the border without regard to the rule of law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jolt
Have they considered how many demeaning jobs undocumented workers do willingly that most Americans refuse to do?
E-Verify and such programs exist for this very reason. The rest in my view are just excuses for businesses to get ultra cheap labor and/or exploit workers. I find it interesting many people sympathetic to illegals don't have compassion on this aspect though for some cheap labor rules and caring about exploited workers doesn't matter as long as they get the cheap work done.
Penalize businesses big time and the cost to deport will be next to nothing as self-deportation will be the result. And most importantly, the flow of people sneaking in will slow greatly. Our gov/the system is the great enabler.
I'm not angry at the costs. I simple feel it's a slap in the face to people who play by the rules, migrate here legally, and get the "sucker" label in capital letters. And the fact we have no idea who we are letting in our country who waltz over the border without regard to the rule of law.
E-Verify and such programs exist to do such jobs. The rest are excuses for businesses to get ultra cheap labor and/or exploit workers. I find it interesting many people sympathetic to illegals don't have compassion on this aspect.
I agree with you about the people who came here legally, they worked hard and played by the rules but so did many children of illegal immigrants.
So that is the situation at hand.
Why should the children who accompanied their parents be denied educational opportunities or be deported?
How did they break the law when they were brought over by their migrant parents with no comprehension of illegality?
I agree with you about the people who came here legally, they worked hard and played by the rules but so did many children of illegal immigrants.
So that is the situation at hand.
Why should the children who accompanied their parents be denied educational opportunities or be deported?
How did they break the law when they were brought over by their migrant parents with no comprehension of illegality?
If they were infants and brought by their parents, I agree....it's the parents fault. Parents are responsible for their kids up until they are 18. But how do we know what kids were brought here at let's say 2 yo and what kid waltzed over at 15, 16, 17 alone and knew they were breaking the law? Should one of these kids get a scholarship too? Do you trust someone we have no idea when/how they got here to be honest with you 100% of the time? I'm a trust and verify person but in this case there's no way of verifying because they broke the law/sneaked over.
Given this background, what would I do? I'd send them back. No, not send out squads of people knocking on doors but send a few back, make some big fines/charges and the word will get around and self deportation will take over. If they are minors, they go back with their parents, get in line like everyone else and come to this country like the millions of those playing by the rules, taking the time and money to do it legally and fair. We don't owe people anything who take the risk and break the law. This is not rational behavior. And of all things, don't reward illegal behavior of any sort by handing out things like college scholarships because you somehow got here illegally. Please. This only enables/rewards bad behavior and most importantly others will see it as valid behavior given it's being rewarded. This is what happens in the bizarro world. Want a job? E-Verify and such exists and they can work here if such jobs can't be filled by american workers. This will also send a message to others including parents of children that might be considering sneaking over that we have a rule of law here in this country and enforce those laws like most other countries. And parents should take some consideration/responsibility for their own kids and don't put them in such a precarious position. Our country shouldn't be the "fall guy" for the illegal behavior of others/poor judgement of parents.
In this particular argument, this is a PRIVATE college. Not a college that is using my tax dollars. So let them do whatever they want, and let the FREE MARKET decide if they stay in business, no? Any citizen who wants to go there but doesn't want to pony up that cash doesn't have to. It's a free country. Again, this is not a public college being funded with my tax dollars.
Or does suddenly capitalism no longer apply here? Let the private business behave the way it wants. If the students (aka the CUSTOMERS of this particular college) love it then let them pony up that money. Not my wallet, not my problem.
If I had a child I wouldn't send them to a private university unless it was a full scholarship. You can get just as good of an education, and some cases a better one, at a public university where the tuition is required to be reasonable. There would be some minor exceptions to that rule but they don't apply towards this college. But in the state of Arizona, public universities are the better ones anyway.
I do have to note however that those who are international students studying here on a visa probably would feel a slap in the face by this. But again I stand my ground here: as long as it is a PRIVATE BUSINESS, not my problem.
In this particular argument, this is a PRIVATE college. Not a college that is using my tax dollars. So let them do whatever they want, and let the FREE MARKET decide if they stay in business, no? Any citizen who wants to go there but doesn't want to pony up that cash doesn't have to. It's a free country. Again, this is not a public college being funded with my tax dollars.
Or does suddenly capitalism no longer apply here? Let the private business behave the way it wants. If the students (aka the CUSTOMERS of this particular college) love it then let them pony up that money. Not my wallet, not my problem.
If I had a child I wouldn't send them to a private university unless it was a full scholarship. You can get just as good of an education, and some cases a better one, at a public university where the tuition is required to be reasonable. There would be some minor exceptions to that rule but they don't apply towards this college. But in the state of Arizona, public universities are the better ones anyway.
I do have to note however that those who are international students studying here on a visa probably would feel a slap in the face by this. But again I stand my ground here: as long as it is a PRIVATE BUSINESS, not my problem.
I agree, it's a private business and they have a right to do many things on their own and I'm certainly for this. But here's the catch.....As long as it's not against the law.
So if a private business knowingly and willingly gives someone that shouldn't be in this country a benefit, is this allowed by law? I mean if a private business willingly/knowingly hires a worker that shouldn't be in this country/is here illegally, they get busted. Fined and all other sorts of not so good things.
So....in this case, a private business/college giving a scholarship, by the title itself that is for illegal aliens(ie undocumented immigrants), I think the private college, ie private business, doesn't pass the litmus test because they are giving it to someone knowingly and willingly who are in this country illegally. Unless private colleges are exempt from knowingly giving scholarships to illegal aliens or giving other benefits to them, some kind of exemption exists on the matter that I'm missing?
In this particular argument, this is a PRIVATE college. Not a college that is using my tax dollars. So let them do whatever they want, and let the FREE MARKET decide if they stay in business, no? Any citizen who wants to go there but doesn't want to pony up that cash doesn't have to. It's a free country. Again, this is not a public college being funded with my tax dollars.
Or does suddenly capitalism no longer apply here? Let the private business behave the way it wants. If the students (aka the CUSTOMERS of this particular college) love it then let them pony up that money. Not my wallet, not my problem.
If I had a child I wouldn't send them to a private university unless it was a full scholarship. You can get just as good of an education, and some cases a better one, at a public university where the tuition is required to be reasonable. There would be some minor exceptions to that rule but they don't apply towards this college. But in the state of Arizona, public universities are the better ones anyway.
I do have to note however that those who are international students studying here on a visa probably would feel a slap in the face by this. But again I stand my ground here: as long as it is a PRIVATE BUSINESS, not my problem.
Private college students have access to FAFSA and FEDERAL Student Loan programs that are subsidized by..... YEPPERS, THE U.S. TAXPAYER.
So while it may be a "private college" it's still got it's hooks into taxpayer $$$$.
My son is going to a private college and has the same federal benefits as he got while getting his worthless ASU degree. So yes, it's the taxpayers business.
Private college students have access to FAFSA and FEDERAL Student Loan programs that are subsidized by..... YEPPERS, THE U.S. TAXPAYER.
So while it may be a "private college" it's still got it's hooks into taxpayer $$$$.
My son is going to a private college and has the same federal benefits as he got while getting his worthless ASU degree. So yes, it's the taxpayers business.
Wow, does your son agree that his degree is worthless? You both must be real proud.
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Private Does NOT mean no Taxpayer Dollars
