llegal Alien Scholarship fee at Phoenix area College (crime, subsidized)

[biggap]

Originally Posted by jimj

I know a kid who can't afford to go to college as he comes from a family who's always been poor. He also can't afford to eat steak/lobster every day so I'm going to tell him to go break into your house and take over a bedroom and then we'll force you to pay for his college AND all his living expenses.

You ok with that?
Oh wait... that'd be ILLEGAL!

Don't be silly. Undocumented immigrants pay taxes, and if there were a decent method of integration in this country then it would be easier to track and standardize the taxes they pay.

Your analogy is simplistic and does not address my point.

[Finger Laker]

Originally Posted by ScottsdaleMark

A few points, I suppose.

The history of America in the Pre-Columbian era is a dynamic one and let's not pretend that wars were not fought and territory didn't change hands by force many times. This was not some peaceful utopia, the Americas were full of vibrant, diverse, strong societies and just like cultures today, territory was fought over and blood was spilled as territory changed hands.

It is also worth noting that every one of us who lives in Arizona is living in former sovereign lands of A) Spain and later B) Mexico.

Mexico is a dynamic, strong, first-world economy -- one of the largest in the WORLD. Mexico's economy is ranked 15th in the world by the UN, IMF and World Bank by GDP. It ranks ahead of all the Scandinavian countries and is of very similar size to the economies of Spain and South Korea.

It's kind of shameful the way American discourse often seems to treat Mexico like some third-world backwater. Yes, it has wealth disparities and some people can and do choose to leave the No. 15 economy for the No. 1 economy, but it is still a large, powerful economy with significant growth and opportunities. There's a reason Mexican immigration has dwindled, many migrants have returned home, and much of today's illegal immigration comes from poorer Central American countries. Illegal immigration is not simply a Mexico problem, nor are all illegal immigrants Mexicans.

Also I take offense at being lumped in with the NDSAP because I'm an evangelical. You really, really lose people when you make unconnected leaps of logic like that, dvxhd. Cliffs Notes version for you: Trump is not an evangelical.

Where doe the per capita GDP rank?

Hint: it is roughly 1/4 of the Arizona per capita GDP

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by jimj

Private college students have access to FAFSA and FEDERAL Student Loan programs that are subsidized by..... YEPPERS, THE U.S. TAXPAYER.

So while it may be a "private college" it's still got it's hooks into taxpayer $$$$.
My son is going to a private college and has the same federal benefits as he got while getting his worthless ASU degree. So yes, it's the taxpayers business.

Anyone who visits our state at any given moment pays a sales tax, assuming they are a living being and need food or something. This goes for tourists and illegals. It's not like they are completely void of paying taxes. It's part of the reason why I don't mind higher sales taxes and would prefer that over a high income tax or property tax in contrast. Oregon makes me cringe there, I can't imagine where they make up for the lack of sales tax. All that tourism to Mount Hood and the beautiful Oregon Coast and the government isn't making a dime off of it. I think Arizona benefits a lot from the tourists and the illegals when it comes to things like the gas tax, the sales tax, etc. that are here. Having a wonder of the world helps

However education is generally funded by property tax, which is what they are not paying. To be honest I don't know what tax funds FAFSA, if you can make it clear to me which tax funds it I would be more interested in discussing this.

FAFSA and the federal loans are pretty lenient. Like any loan, you can pretty much do whatever with it. I know some college kids who go to my university (University of Arizona) who have gotten those to only pay for extracurriculars, like sororities, clothes, trips, rent, etc. (yes, clothes, and their parents fund the rest of it). That's technically not against FAFSA however it does get treated like any other loan at that point when they find it at tax season so they nick you back for that. Interest rates stay lower but it gets taxed and stuff, still a lot better of a deal than a private loan. It's supposed to be education-related only but that's not strictly enforced. This isn't a Big Brother country... yet.

Considering the plethora of students that take your tax dollars to get loans to pay for Ubers to get to frat parties and get trashed (its a very common scenario) I would be a lot more concerned about that.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

Wow, does your son agree that his degree is worthless? You both must be real proud.

Yes he does and yes we are.
And your point other than to be insulting?

[Finger Laker]

Not for nothing but if your walk away with a worthless degree from ASU it says a lot more about the student than the school

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

Not for nothing but if your walk away with a worthless degree from ASU it says a lot more about the student than the school

I'm just going to throw this out there, but a degree is but a showing of dedication and completion of a challenging task. There is no worthless degree, it's about how it is used. My first boss out of undergrad majored in Philosophy, it taught him analytical reasoning and writing skills. He was very well off.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

Not for nothing but if your walk away with a worthless degree from ASU it says a lot more about the student than the school

I'm sorry if I've insulted your school but your statement is "For nothing" because it's an uniformed comment judging someone whom you do not know.
It would not be worthless if at the end he would have been given the instruction to be successful in the field in which his advisors promised from the start. We won't even get into that a couple of his professors admitted (after the fact) that he wasn't taught enough to find employment in his field of study.

It is my considered opinion that ASU was much more concerned with padding/maintaining their graduation rate than actually teaching the skills/knowledge to succeed in the field that was intended.

Now it's off for a second degree in the same field to get specific focused training/education that should make him actually employable in today's marketplace in his desired field.

[Hschlick84]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

I'm just going to throw this out there, but a degree is but a showing of dedication and completion of a challenging task. There is no worthless degree, it's about how it is used. My first boss out of undergrad majored in Philosophy, it taught him analytical reasoning and writing skills. He was very well off.

I tend to agree, but I have a beef with for-profit colleges. I actually went to one, and highly regret it. Did graduate though, I'm ashamed to put it on my resume. Think it was the biggest waste of money and time.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

I'm just going to throw this out there, but a degree is but a showing of dedication and completion of a challenging task. There is no worthless degree, it's about how it is used. My first boss out of undergrad majored in Philosophy, it taught him analytical reasoning and writing skills. He was very well off.

Fair enough but if you go to school to learn to let's say "repair engines" they should teach you more than just reading or writing about repairing them. They should teach you how to actually fix 'em.

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

I tend to agree, but I have a beef with for-profit colleges. I actually went to one, and highly regret it. Did graduate though, I'm ashamed to put it on my resume. Think it was the biggest waste of money and time.

One of my business professors has a Masters from University of Phoenix. Yet he's a professor who used that degree to get into a respectable PhD program. He's an exception rather than a rule, but it can happen.

I don't like for-profits either.